Timing for second cutting of JBP seedlings

[namnhi]

I think you misread Frank: Mark clearly states thst the decond cutting is cutting the stem shorter. The optional third cutting is next spring, cutting ths roots flush to the trunk.

Please ignore my ignorant but what is the different between the first and the second cutting if the second time is also cutting the stem?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I think there's two cuts because the cells in the young stem elongate as they age. By the time of the second cut, they have reached their "final" size and don't stretch anymore.
This allows to keep size reduced.

But that still doesn't explain why one wouldn't just stick with the last cut.
I could be something most people tend to forget about: the difference in ability/ease to root.

I found that plants from the same parents tend to have some differences in rooting ability. The first cut could be (unknowingly) be a selection for that trait; the ones that don't make it, are lost. The ones that do make it, do have the easy rooting trait.

It could possibly have something to do with keeping auxin transport going downwards, but since we can and do use rooting hormones, that's pretty unlikely to be the case.

 

[ysrgrathe]

The first cut may also keep the stem tissue juvenile and more able to differentiate into roots. (?)

 

[DirkvanDreven]

Awesome, thanks a lot for clearing that up!
I'll go ahead and try it myself.
Would this work on other pines as well? I have some 6 month old JRP seedlings, some without flare. They are single flush I've been told, I'm not sure if that matter root-wise but I'd like to know peoples take on this.

Last year I made cuttings of Thunbergii, Nigra an Uncinata. It works with those to. Didn't try Parviflora yet, and I don't know if I will. Going to graft five needle pine om Thunbergii rootstock

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

That sounds awesome Dirk, I think it would be nice if you could show us some of those projects.

 

[jeanluc83]

Would this work on other pines as well?

I've done it with Pitch Pine. It worked great.

 

[DirkvanDreven]

That sounds awesome Dirk, I think it would be nice if you could show us some of those projects.

I'll post the development of my seedlings in the 6 year contest forum.

 

[kingsville grower]

Incorrect. If I’m not mistaken the user I referenced above has not only done it twice but even a third time!

This is what happens when you cut the stem 3 times after rooting it 3 times, they freak out and spit roots like a bottlebrush, and one has total control of where the roots will emerge. This one was started may ‘18 cut twice last year in rapid succession over wintered and flush cut again in February.

 

[kingsville grower]

Last year I made cuttings of Thunbergii, Nigra an Uncinata. It works with those to. Didn't try Parviflora yet, and I don't know if I will. Going to graft five needle pine om Thunbergii rootstock

Jwp seed/cuttings work well, I can get good radials but I need to expand into 2nd and 3rd cuts to see how far I can push them, much longer rooting time than jbp

 

[DirkvanDreven]

This is what happens when you cut the stem 3 times after rooting it 3 times, they freak out and spit roots like a bottlebrush, and one has total control of where the roots will emerge. This one was started may ‘18 cut twice last year in rapid succession over wintered and flush cut again in February.

Your results are unbelievable! Not only your seedling cuttings, but also your cuttings of Maple are fantastic! I've always been very nervous when it comes to root work on pines! Never did any root work on my now 7 year old JBP seedling cuttings. Last year I didn't have time to do proper root work on my now two year old cuttings of Nigra, Uncinata and Thunbergii.soon I will repot these seedlings and wil bareroot them and do my root work. Including my seedlings of 2018, for the 6 year competitionthat wil be about one hundred seedlings to repot.

 

[kingsville grower]

Your results are unbelievable! Not only your seedling cuttings, but also your cuttings of Maple are fantastic! I've always been very nervous when it comes to root work on pines! Never did any root work on my now 7 year old JBP seedling cuttings. Last year I didn't have time to do proper root work on my now two year old cuttings of Nigra, Uncinata and Thunbergii.soon I will repot these seedlings and wil bareroot them and do my root work. Including my seedlings of 2018, for the 6 year competitionthat wil be about one hundred seedlings to repot.

I think Eric Schrader summed it up best, he talks about not letting a spreadout roots system get too big and solid. We eventually have to get these into tiny little pots. Those you have let go 6 yrs may be very problematic for future development not having any fine roots in the “small pot” zone

 

[DirkvanDreven]

I'l see what happens. Can always grow them out to bigger jbp bonsai.

 

[kingsville grower]

I'l see what happens. Can always grow them out to bigger jbp bonsai.

I would communicate with ES when you deal with the six year old roots. He probably has gained a lot of knowledge there

 

[DirkvanDreven]

I would communicate with ES when you deal with the six year old roots. He probably has gained a lot of knowledge there

I would be honoured if @Eric Schrader would find the time to react! I studied every blog post on phutu.com. So sorry he can't find the time anymore to update this! Btw I'm going to repot some of my six and seven year old pines soon. I'm curious what I'll find under the soil!

 

[kingsville grower]

I would be honoured if @Eric Schrader would find the time to react! I studied every blog post on phutu.com. So sorry he can't find the time anymore to update this! Btw I'm going to repot some of my six and seven year old pines soon. I'm curious what I'll find under the soil!

Between ES@phutu, Jonas at bonsaitonight and our own Frank @riversedge there is a ton of help here

 

[DirkvanDreven]

Just repotted the biggest 7 year old JBP seedling.
It turned yellow last year so I figured it stayed to wet. It was never properly repotted, only potted up into bigger pots. So I was afraid of what I might find.
This is the young jbp just before the operation.

Got it out of the pond basket teased all the soil out the roots on one side of the rootball.

The trunk measures 6 cm (2,3'') just above the roots. I want to let the top grow one more season and start removing it this summer, and select another continuation of the trunk next year.
I've always wondered if the lowest part of the trunk thickens any more when growing g out the next sacrifice branch? And if so, is this substantial or minimal?
The other side of the rootball was only teased out. There were surprisingly few roots on the bottom of the pond basket btw.

I found this repotting scary enough with a 7 year old seedling. @Adair M Is this the way to go with my big black pine next year?

 

[Adair M]

Looks good. You could take about half the bottom root ball off. Cut it off flat.

Yes, when you start another sacrifice, the trunk below the sacrifice will thicken. Slowly at first, then more as it gets strong.

 

[eryk2kartman]

Hey Guys,

Maybe stupid question, if so excuse me
So i did some cutting and all, should i put them into the greenhouse? currently temp range is going up to around 30 Celsius and between 60-80% humidity ?
Is it good idea or they will dry out? They are planted in sand and perlite mix with very little organic material.

Sorry im talking about JBP seedlings

 

[Shibui]

If you made cuttings from the JBP seedlings they have no roots right now. The leaves continue to transpire but no roots to take in new water so they are likely to dehydrate. High humidity around the leaves slows transpiration and delays dehydration, hopefully long enough for the roots to form. Humidity needs to be closer to 100% so a closed environment is better than open air. Greenhouse, closed container, plastic bag or automatic misting all help keep cuttings alive until they can grow new roots.
This applies to most cuttings except cacti and many succulents

 

[eryk2kartman]

Cool,
I will place them out of direct sunlight, under the table, its pretty humid there so i hope they will be fine,
Cheers