Thickening trunks

[BPfeil]

Hey and good evening everyone,

I was wondering if there were any techniques to thickening the trunks on my bonsai. I live in an apartment so planting in the ground isn't an option. I am already letting my trees grow out in the hopes that it will help. Would it be too stressful to slip pot them into larger containers this time of year?

 

[0soyoung]

Hey an,d good evening everyone,

I was wondering if there were any techniques to thickening the trunks on my bonsai. I live in an apartment so planting in the ground isn't an option. I am already letting my trees grow out in the hopes that it will help. Would it be too stressful to slip pot them into larger containers this time of year?

No, and that is pretty much the secret to commercial container growing - just loosen the roots on the outside of the soil mass when you 'slip up'

If you repot and root prune in alternate springs, you can keep this up for quite some time without needing a pot the size of a swimming pool. Thickening requires more foliage. More foliage requires more root surface to adsorb water and minerals. Root pruning will stimulate more roots to be closer to the trunk, ... etc. (I bet you can finish this without me writing another 200 words).

 

[BPfeil]

No, and that is pretty much the secret to commercial container growing - just loosen the roots on the outside of the soil mass when you 'slip up'

If you repot and root prune in alternate springs, you can keep this up for quite some time without needing a pot the size of a swimming pool. Thickening requires more foliage. More foliage requires more root surface to adsorb water and minerals. Root pruning will stimulate more roots to be closer to the trunk, ... etc. (I bet you can finish this without me writing another 200 words).

Thanks!

 

[Quince]

Rampant growth is required for significant change in caliper. All things being equal a tree will grow better with unrestricted roots, but you still need to consider the trees basic horticultural needs. Is it getting the right amount of light, air circulation, nutrients. I don't know what kind of set up you have, or your experience level, but I have known the disappointing experience of a small tree in a big pot siting around taking up space.

 

[BPfeil]

Rampant growth is required for significant change in caliper. All things being equal a tree will grow better with unrestricted roots, but you still need to consider the trees basic horticultural needs. Is it getting the right amount of light, air circulation, nutrients. I don't know what kind of set up you have, or your experience level, but I have known the disappointing experience of a small tree in a big pot siting around taking up space.

My trees sit on a west facing patio, and they get sunlight for the majority of the day. I have them in an inorganic substrate, so as far as air to the roots go, they are getting plenty. I am giving them the recommended dose of Bonsai pro liquid fert, as well as weekly doses of HB-101 vitalizer. My trees have been growing rampantly, my question was more aimed towards if a larger pot would help thickening at this point or not.

 

[Potawatomi13]

My trees sit on a west facing patio, and they get sunlight for the majority of the day. I have them in an inorganic substrate, so as far as air to the roots go, they are getting plenty. I am giving them the recommended dose of Bonsai pro liquid fert, as well as weekly doses of HB-101 vitalizer. My trees have been growing rampantly, my question was more aimed towards if a larger pot would help thickening at this point or not.

Up to a point. Root reduction needs periodically done and in so doing size of pot can be kept somewhat managable.
Can also build grow box for better shallowness development of root system. Container growing as general rule is slower for trunk size but can be done and is process also compelled by personal circumstance of self.

 

[It's Kev]

this is very informative. you can encourage your roots to grow sideways instead of down.

 

[sorce]

I was wondering if there were any techniques to thickening the trunks on my bonsai.

We all have different ways.

In light of recent information.....

YOU, thicken trunks by continuing to grab bigger trunks from your jobs!

I'm not saying growing stuff out is a waste of time.

You're just more likely to FIND the trunk you are looking for!

If you are looking!

Sorce

 

[BPfeil]

Thanks for the info everyone!
A member at my society recommended that I plant them in a grow box filled with sawdust.
Has anyone ever tried this? Seems a bit far fetched to me.
Thanks again

 

[0soyoung]

Roots must get oxygen to row and load mineral nutrients. They also must be kept moist. So what you need is an 'open' or well-draining substrate with lots of air-filled porosity. Sawdust will satisfy this need for a while as long as it doesn't get compacted. Likewise, sphagnum moss will satisfy the needs for a while and so too will bark, but they will break down over time, reducing the air-filled porosity - roots then don't do their job so well and then their rate of growth declines (and the story proceeds to an unhappy ending). Of course, one can periodically remove this stuff by 'repotting'.

You may find this article and others on evergreengardenworks.com interesting as well as informative.

 

[MichaelS]

this is very informative. you can encourage your roots to grow sideways instead of down.

I like this. It would be perfect for trees which are half finished.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@BPfeil - the collection of articles on the Evergreen Gardenworks website are excellent. Very few books or websites focus on bringing young material up to size to become pre-bonsai.

The most difficult part of bonsai fore personally was to accept that most exhibition quality bonsai spend their first years getting up to 5 to 20 times taller than their finished height. This is to develop trunk diameter.

My Amur maple, I plan to finish as an eight inch tall shohin. Current size is 5 feet tall, and the trunk is still only one inch diameter. Needs to get taller. I want 3 inch diameter trunk.

 

[GrimLore]

My Amur maple, I plan to finish as an eight inch tall shohin. Current size is 5 feet tall, and the trunk is still only one inch diameter. Needs to get taller. I want 3 inch diameter trunk.

I have been growing Fruit trees and most recently a Chinese Elm from bare root small stock(average 18 inches tall whips) a few years now VERY over potted. One Crabapple on its 3rd season got away from me and takes a bit to keep at 8 foot - base is still small for my plans at 3 1/2 - 4 inches. I have been keeping others at 5 foot or less(they hit 6 foot easy first year) but they fatten up far quicker kept shorter. The fruit trees do exceptional and the new Chinese Elm is tall first season but we will see what happens next year as far as the base goes. I also find with serious over potting it is FAR easier to control growth, direction of growth, insects, and rust! Give me 12 - 15 gallon pots over ground growing ANY time - it works

Grimmy

 

[BPfeil]

I have been growing Fruit trees and most recently a Chinese Elm from bare root small stock(average 18 inches tall whips) a few years now VERY over potted. One Crabapple on its 3rd season got away from me and takes a bit to keep at 8 foot - base is still small for my plans at 3 1/2 - 4 inches. I have been keeping others at 5 foot or less(they hit 6 foot easy first year) but they fatten up far quicker kept shorter. The fruit trees do exceptional and the new Chinese Elm is tall first season but we will see what happens next year as far as the base goes. I also find with serious over potting it is FAR easier to control growth, direction of growth, insects, and rust! Give me 12 - 15 gallon pots over ground growing ANY time - it works

Grimmy

Unfortunately living in an apartment I don't have the option of planting in the ground. I picked up a few 17"x17"x6" plastic grow boxes, so we'll see how my little guys do in those. What would you recommend planting them in for trunk growth? Mine are currently in an inorganic substrate.
Thanks!

 

[GrimLore]

Mine are currently in an inorganic substrate

All of mine in large pots are as well - If it drains good you are golden, if not add healthy amounts of course silica sand and perlite

Grimmy

 

[Tieball]

Unfortunately living in an apartment I don't have the option of planting in the ground. I picked up a few 17"x17"x6" plastic grow boxes, so we'll see how my little guys do in those. What would you recommend planting them in for trunk growth? Mine are currently in an inorganic substrate.
Thanks!

So...how tall and how thick are the trunks on these little guys right now? And what do you imagine as you end trunk thickness? Just curious. Any photos?

 

[BPfeil]

So...how tall and how thick are the trunks on these little guys right now? And what do you imagine as you end trunk thickness? Just curious. Any photos?

The ones I am trying to thicken are my trident maple and my procumbens juniper. The maple is currently about 1' tall with a 1/4th" diameter. The juniper is about 10" tall with a 1/3" diameter trunk. They have a loooooong way to go, I know. They're more my guinea pig trees for trunk thickening. I intend to purchase/collect better material when money/season permits. My hope is to make the trident a shohin with a 3-4" diameter trunk, and the juniper I am undecided on, though I know I want it thicker lol.

 

[Smoke]

My hope is to make the trident a shohin with a 3-4" diameter trunk,

I can tell you from experience that growing a trident with a three or four inch trunk for shohin is a very technical challenge. You don't need a lot of space to do it, a cut down black five gallon nursery container is all you need. The big challenge is growing the large trunk and keeping the rootage appropriate for the correct pot. It looks pretty stupid with a 8 inch tree in a 14 inch wide pot.

These were all grown in cut down fives.

They have all been layered twice and all have grafted branches.

 

[BPfeil]

I can tell you from experience that growing a trident with a three or four inch trunk for shohin is a very technical challenge. You don't need a lot of space to do it, a cut down black five gallon nursery container is all you need. The big challenge is growing the large trunk and keeping the rootage appropriate for the correct pot. It looks pretty stupid with a 8 inch tree in a 14 inch wide pot.

These were all grown in cut down fives.

They have all been layered twice and all have grafted branches.
View attachment 150821 View attachment 150823 View attachment 150824

Hmmm. Then probably not a challenge for a newbie to take on? Whats a good tree for a beginner to make a shohin?
Thanks!

 

[It's Kev]

apparently trident maples are native here, i'll check taobao.com (chinese ebay, and craigslist combined)