These are grafts, right?

[Steveolson]

Was looking at some nursery stock today and just wanted to confirm that these are grafts. Also kind of wondering if the first one (on a japanese white pine) would grow out such as to not be noticeable.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Yes, those are graft unions. Not a big deal if the tree is going into landscape... bigger deal for bonsai. The white pine graft is not very noticeable, depending where you got the tree it may be a closely related rootstock and may in time be less noticeable.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Yes, th3 ma0le looks nasty. Yiu could try an air layer. The pine isn’t really all that noticeable and should get even less noticeable with age.

 

[Steveolson]

thanks y'all -- didn't end up buying the pine (the only one i was really considering) but I see so many of those maples, ostensibly being sold as bonsai starters that i was starting to question my eyes as to whether those were grafts or just how young maples' trunks mature. Thanks for making me feel less crazy!

 

[Shibui]

Whoever grafted that pine used a smooth barked stock so there's little difference between the stock and trunk. The graft is also really low. In a few years that graft will probably not be noticeable. Low grafts tend to be disguised by the change from trunk to nebari so much better than higher grafts.
White pine grafted on black pine stands out way more because the black pine stock has very different bark. It's still possible for a really low graft to be hidden by the change to roots.

Grafts will always be obvious for the first couple of years but, as the trunk thickens, they tend to disappear. I have several (older) grafted maples with no sign at all of any change from stock to scion.
That maple graft is probably only 2-3 years. My guess is that it will be way less obvious when the trunk has doubled in thickness.

Occasionally, stock and scion grow at different rates causing a swelling below or above the graft. That's obviously the worst possible outcome but is relatively rare. Just gets lots of press because it's so obvious when it does happen.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

The nursery tag on the maple is an Iseli nursery tag. They grow nice trees but their focus is not growing pre-bonsai, so they are less worried about roots and visible graft unions. Doesn't mean the trees aren't healthy but like most standard nursery trees you will have to work to use them for bonsai.

 

[Jetson1950]

I’m asking this question from pure ignorance, but I have several Japanese maples with very ugly grafts on them. To maintain the desired benefits of the rootstock, can you repot the tree with the graft right at soil level and let it grow roots up to that point?

 

[Wood]

I have a hunch that it'd be possible, though I don't know if it'd end up as great material. A lot of grafts I see on Japanese maples are asymmetric, like the one you took a picture of. One side of the nebari would be dramatically lumpier than the other. The root stock also tends to grow faster than the scion, which is why the trunk is thicker than below the graft.

It'd probably be very hard to develop to this level of nebari pictured below without still seeing the graft union. Japanese maples have smooth enough bark that it'd be hard to hide with continued development.

It might be a good learning experiment/practice tree, just know that before starting with that tree

 

[Bonsai Nut]

The root stock also tends to grow faster than the scion, which is why the trunk is thicker than below the graft.

I think this is a really important point for folks to understand. Rootstock is chosen for strength and health because nurseries want to have as many successful trees as possible. However if the rootstock is considerably stronger than the scion, it will not grow/thicken at the same rate. Usually, in the case of Japanese maples, the difference is not very great, since many nurseries use "green" (ie generic non-cultivar) Japanese maple trees for root stock. But when you are dealing with particularly small dwarf cultivars, the difference can be significant - and in the case of other species like dwarf Japanese white pine grafted on generic Japanese black pine rootstock, the resulting tree can almost be impossible to use for bonsai, because the rootstock will always be so out of character with the scion, and will grow faster, thicker, and have different bark characteristics.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I think this is a really important point for folks to understand. Rootstock is chosen for strength and health because nurseries want to have as many successful trees as possible. However if the rootstock is considerably stronger than the scion, it will not grow/thicken at the same rate. Usually, in the case of Japanese maples, the difference is not very great, since many nurseries use "green" (ie generic non-cultivar) Japanese maple trees for root stock. But when you are dealing with particularly small dwarf cultivars, the difference can be significant - and in the case of other species like dwarf Japanese white pine grafted on generic Japanese black pine rootstock, the resulting tree can almost be impossible to use for bonsai, because the rootstock will always be so out of character with the scion, and will grow faster, thicker, and have different bark characteristics.

This is a really noticeable problem with hinoki cypress in europe where every one I have ever seen was grafted onto a very vigorous rootstock and ends up with a bulbous base. Here and in europe most blue atlas cedar are grafted unless bought from a bonsai nursery where they are not grafted. It took me several years to find a BAC with a decent graft union as no one seems to be growing them for bonsai out east. Fortunately it was grafted low and is in the creases at the root collar. My dwarf Horstmann BAC is another story with a noticable graft about 6” up but once the root stock catches up I expect it to blend well. Otherwise it goes into the landscape.

 

[Wood]

This is a really noticeable problem with hinoki cypress in europe where every one I have ever seen was grafted onto a very vigorous rootstock and ends up with a bulbous base.

I've had similar problems with hinoki in nurseries in the DC area. Everything is a cultivar and has calf-thick trunks while the scion has a wrist thick trunk. Occasionally I wonder about buying one and ground layering it

 

[Shibui]

To maintain the desired benefits of the rootstock, can you repot the tree with the graft right at soil level and let it grow roots up to that point?

Definitely. It is often desirable to layer JM at the graft line. Best not to layer above the graft unless you know that cultivar can root easily. Most root stocks are able to develop new roots so safer to start at or just below the graft. As the roots and nebari develop and the base of the trunk swells, any differences around the graft will be hidden.