The Van Meer Technique

[berobinson82]

I tried searching for a thread about this here to no avail. If I missed it, I apologize.

I was reading this article and was fascinated. Has anyone tried anything similar to this successfully? I imagine it would be a difficult task yet not impossible with a steady hand.

http://ofbonsai.org/techniques/styles-and-styling/the-van-meer-technique

Would love to chat about it.

 

[Gene Deci]

On page 46 of his book "Bonsai Techniques" John Naka describes this procedure. I have tried it twice without success. I expect the fault is mine but it is clear to me that it is not a trivial technique to master.

 

[berobinson82]

On page 46 of his book "Bonsai Techniques" John Naka describes this procedure. I have tried it twice without success. I expect the fault is mine but it is clear to me that it is not a trivial technique to master.

Very similar process but Naka uses a "flap" while this one shows both the "flap" and the... uhhhh... I guess Van Meer. I assume (at risk) that you tried the flap folding from Naka's book?

This 360 approach looks difficult but I imagine lining up the cambium layer of the flap would also be hit or miss.



edit:

The technique used on the roots seemed to work very well and doesn't look too difficult assuming you have the right tools.

 

[Rose Mary]

Have 2 trees with large side root would.like to try this technique. Yamadori collected Doug fir and a Japanese maple. I suppose best done in spring??.

Trees have been in grow baskets some years now and quite healthy.

Rose
SW oregon

 

[berobinson82]

Have 2 trees with large side root would.like to try this technique. Yamadori collected Doug fir and a Japanese maple. I suppose best done in spring??.

Trees have been in grow baskets some years now and quite healthy.

Rose
SW oregon

From the article:

"Note: The safest time to perform this technique is from early Spring to early Summer and even then only on thriving and well established trees with a healthy root system!" (Van Meer, 2013)

Please let use know if you try this out. I just might try it with ya!

 

[Gene Deci]

I assume (at risk) that you tried the flap folding from Naka's book?

This 360 approach looks difficult but I imagine lining up the cambium layer of the flap would also be hit or miss.

My first attempt of Naka's technique could be described as a flap but I took enough wood that I was well below the cambium which made it much stiffer than a flap. I dug out the scar until it was deep enough that the bark on the flap would fit flush with the bark on the trunk. But apparently the cambiums did not match and the flap died back to bottom of the scar. That was on a pine.

My other attempt was on a larch. This time it was more like the 360 approach. I brought one flap up from the bottom and one down from the top and over-lapped them. Then I cut through both with one cut at the middle of the scar figuring the edges would match perfectly (old wall papering trick) and therefore the cambiums would match. No luck though. Both top and bottom flaps died back to the edge of the scar.

I think with the number of cuts described in the Van Meer article that it would be almost impossible to match cambiums.

 

[berobinson82]

My first attempt of Naka's technique could be described as a flap but I took enough wood that I was well below the cambium which made it much stiffer than a flap. I dug out the scar until it was deep enough that the bark on the flap would fit flush with the bark on the trunk. But apparently the cambiums did not match and the flap died back to bottom of the scar. That was on a pine.

My other attempt was on a larch. This time it was more like the 360 approach. I brought one flap up from the bottom and one down from the top and over-lapped them. Then I cut through both with one cut at the middle of the scar figuring the edges would match perfectly (old wall papering trick) and therefore the cambiums would match. No luck though. Both top and bottom flaps died back to the edge of the scar.

I think with the number of cuts described in the Van Meer article that it would be almost impossible to match cambiums.

Thank you for sharing your experience. While reading the wallpaper trick I nodded and thought for sure! Damn.

I wonder if certain species respond... that's naive. Of course different species would respond better. Elms, I imagine, would be much easier. Tridents as well...

Grafting, for some, is difficult and considered a high skill task. THIS seems like it's doable but takes a damned good eye and probably a great deal of patience and failure.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?

 

[Gene Deci]

Thank you for sharing your experience. While reading the wallpaper trick I nodded and thought for sure! Damn.

I wonder if certain species respond... that's naive. Of course different species would respond better. Elms, I imagine, would be much easier. Tridents as well...

Grafting, for some, is difficult and considered a high skill task. THIS seems like it's doable but takes a damned good eye and probably a great deal of patience and failure.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?

I wondered if conifers might not be good species to try this on. But as I said, my lack of skill may have been the main problem. I also would be very interested in other's experience. I would try it again if I felt there was a chance I could do it successfully.

 

[fore]

I agreed on that thread it was a cool idea, who's ever it was lol But one would need a very steady hand, know exactly how far to carve out the hardwood, and a bit of luck getting the cambiums to line up. Certainly something I'd want to try, but on a trash tree. lol

 

[berobinson82]

I agreed on that thread it was a cool idea, who's ever it was lol But one would need a very steady hand, know exactly how far to carve out the hardwood, and a bit of luck getting the cambiums to line up. Certainly something I'd want to try, but on a trash tree. lol

Often it is said that "learning material" is a bad idea but in this case, I'd agree that it's probably wise to start on something that will never make it into a $100 pot.

 

[barrosinc]

has anyone actually used this? (hopefully with images)

 

[Vin]

I read about it last year and could have tried it out several times already but keep forgetting about it. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

[sorce]

I read the article a while ago.

Gene,
It sounds like you may have left too much wood. I applaud Your attempts!

All,
I am a believer, but it seems something you would have to "practice" doing on yards trees, or in the woods!

Reserved for when you must.

Climate must make a difference in technique, but it can't be much different than grafting. ??

Good one B.

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

has anyone actually used this

I tried last year on a maple - Complete fail and on a carpinus -which sort of worked. Both on about 1 inch trunks of strong trees, in early spring, right before the main flush of foliage.

The maple was a stump I reduced that day. I hollowed out the wood, which took a LONG time, lacking the right tools. Flaps were folded down, put in place with strands of raffia and wound paste. Within weeks I saw a dead area make its way down the trunk.

The carpinus had a Y split. I removed one arm. Here I made sure to leave a small branch on the bark used as a flap. After thinning out the barkflap, I folded it down, and drove a single screw through the bark in the trunk. The little side-branch lived, none of the bark died and it looks like the top of the flap is merging with the main trunk. But it is far -several years, I guess- from pretty.

Not sure whether I have pictures. Will have to dig.

 

[berobinson82]

I tried last year on a maple - Complete fail and on a carpinus -which sort of worked. Both on about 1 inch trunks of strong trees, in early spring, right before the main flush of foliage.

The maple was a stump I reduced that day. I hollowed out the wood, which took a LONG time, lacking the right tools. Flaps were folded down, put in place with strands of raffia and wound paste. Within weeks I saw a dead area make its way down the trunk.

The carpinus had a Y split. I removed one arm. Here I made sure to leave a small branch on the bark used as a flap. After thinning out the barkflap, I folded it down, and drove a single screw through the bark in the trunk. The little side-branch lived, none of the bark died and it looks like the top of the flap is merging with the main trunk. But it is far -several years, I guess- from pretty.

Not sure whether I have pictures. Will have to dig.

Surprising! With carpinus so slow to heal, and maples so quick, this is counter-intuitive; your results. Please DO post some pics.