ecalvillo7
Sapling
Hi! Does anybody have any experience or tried to reduce leaf size in taxodiums or bald cypress? I have one i can make into a shohin size, but curious if i can reduce it... and if it has, what technique have you used. Thanks!!!
Taxodium leaf reduction
- Thread starter ecalvillo7
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Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
I have this 10" Bald Cypress...waking up. I have never seen one in person up close other than mine...So I can't say I know how well it reduces. But...they are fun! Next image shared will be of fronds fully extended. Not there yet...
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
You could cut the fronds shorter.....if need be.
PA_Penjing
Chumono
If you use the correct words (whatever they may be?) there are some really interesting threads on BC ramification and leaf reduction on this website. I saw them years ago when I tried to grow BC so I don't know whose threads they were. I'm not especially good at using the search feature on this website but give it a look. I have been told my members on here that the leaves reduce to about half the natural size. Kind of convenient that taxodium leaves already look like tiny branches with individual leaves on them. Mach5 has a pretty small bald cypress too, he has a thread going on it, but I'm not sure if he mentions leaf reduction, think he's still building branches.
ecalvillo7
Sapling
Thanks! let me do a good search in here. Ive searched but havent found much, maybe as you say, need to find the right keywords.
Sekibonsai
Shohin
BC branching can be a bit coarse and will always appear a bit unkempt but it is possible to ramify and get some degree of leaf reduction.
Use the classic concept of increasing twigginess and overall number of leaves to accomplish this.
Additionally they can be defoliated in early summer in 9b for an extra session of work. Or partially to balance out growth areas.
Lastly, while they like big pots that keep roots cool and hold extra water, they can be placed in more traditionally sized shallow pots to confine the roots and produce smaller growth.
If you use a fast draining mix rather than these partial organic mixes some like you can control water.
There are timing tricks that are appropriate for showing them off at their best but aren't practical for the everyday view of the back yard.
Use the classic concept of increasing twigginess and overall number of leaves to accomplish this.
Additionally they can be defoliated in early summer in 9b for an extra session of work. Or partially to balance out growth areas.
Lastly, while they like big pots that keep roots cool and hold extra water, they can be placed in more traditionally sized shallow pots to confine the roots and produce smaller growth.
If you use a fast draining mix rather than these partial organic mixes some like you can control water.
There are timing tricks that are appropriate for showing them off at their best but aren't practical for the everyday view of the back yard.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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@ecalvillo7 - I noticed you are posting from Monterrey, Mexico. This happens to be in the middle of the natural occurrence range for Taxodium mucronatum, the ahuehuete, or Montezuma bald cypress. Are you working with T. mucronatum or are you working with the Taxodium distichum, the bald cypress, who's native range is pretty much limited to inside the USA. Now seeds, seedlings and forestry projects have spread T. distichum, the USA bald cypress all over the world. So you easily could have access to either species. Do you know which you have?
Which species you have is only moderately important. The USA bald cypress, T. distichum thrives in flooded habitats, and many grow them in pots partially or even completely submerged in water. The Montezuma cypress, or ahuehuete, T. mucronatum comes from river bank and wetland edges where it is only flooded for parts of the year. I have no hands on experience with T. mucronatum, but I suspect it would suffer if grown submerged for the entire summer the way many in the USA grow T distichum. Both species grow quite well if soil is kept moist, with no need to submerge them. So if you do not know which species you have, simply grow them more like a conventional deciduous tree, keeping soil moist through the summer but not submerging the pot in a tray of water.
I have grown T. distichum, for a decade or two. The leaves do reduce, though the leaf reduction is not as dramatic as with elms (Ulmus). Distichum has the habit of dropping first year branches over winter, keeping only a few new branches each season. They do eventually ramify, but the ramification is coarse as mentioned by others. My guess is you can depend on maybe a 50% reduction in leaf size with a few years of ramification. Each leaf is a frond, you can think of the frond as a representative of a small branch with single leaf blades. So the feathery look of the leaves does keep the image light, the fronds do not give the impression of overly large leaves.
I do not know ultimate leaf reduction. It may be possible to get smaller leaves than the 50% or so reduction I've seen. Mid-summer defoliation can certainly help, or defoliation about 4 to 6 weeks before an exhibit to refine leaf size for an event that will be judged. And as also mentioned by previous posters, you can take a scissors and shorten the length of the fronds if needed.
Perhaps @BillsBayou , @MACH5 or others more experienced with bald cypress can comment about ultimate limits of potential leaf reduction.
Which species you have is only moderately important. The USA bald cypress, T. distichum thrives in flooded habitats, and many grow them in pots partially or even completely submerged in water. The Montezuma cypress, or ahuehuete, T. mucronatum comes from river bank and wetland edges where it is only flooded for parts of the year. I have no hands on experience with T. mucronatum, but I suspect it would suffer if grown submerged for the entire summer the way many in the USA grow T distichum. Both species grow quite well if soil is kept moist, with no need to submerge them. So if you do not know which species you have, simply grow them more like a conventional deciduous tree, keeping soil moist through the summer but not submerging the pot in a tray of water.
I have grown T. distichum, for a decade or two. The leaves do reduce, though the leaf reduction is not as dramatic as with elms (Ulmus). Distichum has the habit of dropping first year branches over winter, keeping only a few new branches each season. They do eventually ramify, but the ramification is coarse as mentioned by others. My guess is you can depend on maybe a 50% reduction in leaf size with a few years of ramification. Each leaf is a frond, you can think of the frond as a representative of a small branch with single leaf blades. So the feathery look of the leaves does keep the image light, the fronds do not give the impression of overly large leaves.
I do not know ultimate leaf reduction. It may be possible to get smaller leaves than the 50% or so reduction I've seen. Mid-summer defoliation can certainly help, or defoliation about 4 to 6 weeks before an exhibit to refine leaf size for an event that will be judged. And as also mentioned by previous posters, you can take a scissors and shorten the length of the fronds if needed.
Perhaps @BillsBayou , @MACH5 or others more experienced with bald cypress can comment about ultimate limits of potential leaf reduction.
ecalvillo7
Sapling
Thanks for the great information. Yes, i believe it is the Ahuehuete variety (as we have many here on the riverbanks etc). Will certainly keep this information saved to try some of the advice you give. Thanks again!
MACH5
Imperial Masterpiece
Bald Cypress does very well with full defoliation. But I do it to increase ramification and not so much to reduce leaf size. This is how I was able to develop this small one in just a few years time. In fact, defoliation does not, that I have observed, reduce the leaf size in a significant way. Here is the link:
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/bald-cypress.30848/
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/bald-cypress.30848/
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I believe this photo proves you can foolishly fuss over leaf size, or wisely decide when to display it.
Of course, a prerequisite is going to the @Cadillactaste "plain vanilla" school of finding the right pot...
But while you're fussing with that leaf size, you have 6 other trees missing attention.
Display/Photograph/Show a BC in winter or early spring..
!
Lol...my kid came to me saying Papi es un tonto the other day, no te estoy llamando tonto! Soy moreno like Emilio Estivez!
Sorce
WNC Bonsai
Masterpiece
Go to https://bonsai-south.com/?s=bald+cypress+defoliation and enjoy.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
Following this from a distance, it seems that no one tries tip pruning. Why is that? It has been my experience with everything I've tried it on it works the same way: As the foliage is expanding/lengthening/extending/getting bigger, et al, removing the leading leaf or edge stops growth of the stem and all leaves (needles in the case of Tamarack) stop getting bigger. I don't see any examples of this and wonder why not? In all cases, as soon as I can discriminate some distance between the leading leaf (like on JM) or can get a thumb and forefinger on the base of an extending cluster and the other thumb and forefinger on the leading edge of the cluster (of Tamarack), rotate & pull, breaking off the stem holding the terminal several needles and leaving undamaged the needles at the base, the needles stop lengthening and just park. You can see these clusters on Tamarack are all short on August 11th.
Dawn Redwood can't be shortcut by clipping the fist couple pairs of needles, they respond by putting a flurry of growth from almost anywhere on the trunk or an internode which is counterproductive and forms a knot of growth at the internodes that looks the end of a dogbone, at best. (I'm uncomfortable calling these two "needles", so correct me if there's a better term.)
Dawn Redwood can't be shortcut by clipping the fist couple pairs of needles, they respond by putting a flurry of growth from almost anywhere on the trunk or an internode which is counterproductive and forms a knot of growth at the internodes that looks the end of a dogbone, at best. (I'm uncomfortable calling these two "needles", so correct me if there's a better term.)
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
Bump.
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