Tanuki, deadwood and epoxy resin

[Lannabulls]

The other day I was at the local bonsai farm, they were making juniper tanuki.
For the dead wood they were using teak wood let to dry for many years, here in Thailand planty of, one of the best teak wood quality ever, mainly implemented in marine prouposes.
After bleaching and applying lime sulfur, only on the bottom part of the deadwood, the base that enters in contact with soil, moisture, etc, they were applying coats of resin, no the polyuretan one, the 2 components epoxy one.
My question: you experienced guys out there, have you ever try to preserve the base of your deadwood with epoxy? Once resin is dried it could be harmful for the bonsai or it is a completely safe way to procede? In the farm they ensure me that is safe, you know, you never know.....
Thanks!

 

[penumbra]

Cured epoxy should be harmless. It is often used in delicate marine biosystems which are much more delicare and sensitive than any plant.

 

[sorce]

You know that saying...
Those who can do, do.
Those who can't do, teach.

Well this one goes those who can't, Tanuki.

My problem is taking this fake route out when you should have many trees in that climate you can grow from seed to thick and bitchin for real in probably way less time it would take to eff around with a dumbass piece of dead wood.

Best use that teak for stands for your real trees I reckon.

Fanuki.

Sorce

 

[ABCarve]

I've used it for deadwood for 8 years without a problem. It does break down from UV light from the sun, although the leaves from the tree keep it shaded.

 

[Lannabulls]

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Lannabulls]

Sorce, in my opinion the world is nice cause we are different, in this case some of us like tanuki, other like you dont and you are welcome to tell about how you feel!
A great one once said: "I dont agree with you opinion but I will always fight cause you will always be able to tell about"

 

[Lannabulls]

You know that saying...
Those who can do, do.
Those who can't do, teach.

Well this one goes those who can't, Tanuki.

My problem is taking this fake route out when you should have many trees in that climate you can grow from seed to thick and bitchin for real in probably way less time it would take to eff around with a dumbass piece of dead wood.

Best use that teak for stands for your real trees I reckon.

Fanuki.

Sorce

Sorce, in my opinion the world is nice cause we are different, in this case some of us like tanuki, other like you dont and you are welcome to tell about how you feel!
A great one once said: "I dont agree with you opinion but I will always fight cause you will always be able to tell about"

 

[leatherback]

My question: you experienced guys out there, have you ever try to preserve the base of your deadwood with epoxy? Once resin is dried it could be harmful for the bonsai or it is a completely safe way to procede?

Yes, if cured properly.

Alternative route to explore, one which I use:

Paraloid B-72 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Lannabulls]

Yes, if cured properly.

Alternative route to explore, one which I use:

Paraloid B-72 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I dont think that kind of resin is easy to find, atl ist here in Thailand. I have experience about resin in general, I tested many different kind, never with bonsai ofcurse. I use to make fornitures such tables with wood slabs and resin, I tried to buy resin, importing it, impossible, here is not allowed. I find my source of epoxy from a factory in Bangkok, good stuff that resist well to scratches and uv too, no yellowing after years.

 

[leatherback]

I dont think that kind of resin is easy to find, atl ist here in Thailand.

PARALOID B72 Art Craft Conservation for Restoration Thailand | Ubuy

Shop PARALOID B72 Art Craft Conservation for Restoration of Antiquities online at a best price in Thailand. 163753207277

www.ubuy.co.th

 

[Lannabulls]

Thanks, I know ubuy, I already tried as well ebay, etc, they let you order the resin, you pay in advance, after a couple of weeks they refound your money telling that resin can not be imported, here it works like this, even if ubuy has "th" "Thailand", on its domein. The only place in the web were I was able to buy resin is lazada.com.th, cause the resin is produced here.
Thanks so much for your help anyway

 

[Bonsai Noodles]

I'm thinking of using CPES (clear epoxy penetrating sealer) on juniper shari. Does this not harm the tree at all? I'm worried that the epoxy would penetrate into the xylem, thereby restricting water flow in the plant. Maybe my understanding of plant biology is wrong here. Or is it that the xylem won't get "clogged" by the epoxy. Maybe my understanding of epoxy's mechanism of action is wrong then. Can someone enlighten me?

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I'm thinking of using CPES (clear epoxy penetrating sealer) on juniper shari. Does this not harm the tree at all? I'm worried that the epoxy would penetrate into the xylem, thereby restricting water flow in the plant. Maybe my understanding of plant biology is wrong here. Or is it that the xylem won't get "clogged" by the epoxy. Maybe my understanding of epoxy's mechanism of action is wrong then. Can someone enlighten me?

You are putting it on a live tree, whereas tanuki are dead wood with a living tree planted next to or on it to create the false image of a craggy old tree. I have never heard of anyone applying a resin sealer to the dead vein on a living tree but as long as you restrict it to just the dead wood it should only penetrate a small amount and not get into the live portion. I have heard of folks applying super glue to deadwood veins to harden and preserve them though.

 

[misfit11]

You know that saying...
Those who can do, do.
Those who can't do, teach.

Well this one goes those who can't, Tanuki.

My problem is taking this fake route out when you should have many trees in that climate you can grow from seed to thick and bitchin for real in probably way less time it would take to eff around with a dumbass piece of dead wood.

Best use that teak for stands for your real trees I reckon.

Fanuki.

Sorce

I don't agree with this sentiment at all. I know many people in the bonsai community (on this forum included) turn their noses up at Tanuki. I've never really understood this snobby purist attitude. They see Tanuki as cheating or somehow "fake" bonsai. Why? Virtually every single technique in bonsai is unnatural and requires manipulation to convey an image of a large wild tree. Is wiring cheating? Is carving deadwood cheating? Is pruning for shape cheating? All of these techniques are used to convey an image of an old gnarly tree. Nothing we do in this hobby is natural. All of it is trickery. A bonsais true age isn't the goal. Really old trees are impressive and make for cool strories, but its the illusion of age that we are going for.

A good Tanuki (one that is so well done that it tricks the viewer into believing that the deadwood was always there) is not easy. It requires skill and time to create a convincing image. You don't just slap a juniper whip on a stick and expect anyone to believe it. I think one could argue that it's MORE difficult to develop a convincing Tanuki than simply acquiring a fantastic piece of Yamadori and styling it.

I'm not saying anyone should try to sell a Tanuki for anything other than what it is. I think they should be allowed at shows if they're labeled as such. However, if you can truly fool someone with one as "real" that would be the greatest compliment.

Fuck bonsai snobbery. People need to get over themselves and their silly egos.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

ALL epoxy resins and vapors (that I am aware of) are toxic when uncured, so use with caution. However once the epoxy is cured, most are considered "food safe" - ie biologically inert and safe for direct contact with food for human consumption - which is why they are used frequently on counter and tabletops. If you are concerned, simply check to make sure the epoxy says "food safe when cured" somewhere on the packaging or the instructions.

The challenge with using epoxy with deadwood is that even a penetrating epoxy does not penetrate more than 1/2" or so into dry wood (and it won't penetrate at all into wet or green wood). Any wood that is not covered / penetrated by the epoxy will still rot, so you have to be cautious that water cannot get behind your epoxy. It is easier said than done. Epoxy works great to preserve wood when ALL surfaces are covered - like for wooden canoes or sailboats. But if you simply coat one side of wood, the other side may still give you fits. (I have built an entire boat out of a single 2" x 4" x 8' board and construction paper... soaked with epoxy. It was strong and super lightweight!)

 

[leatherback]

snobby

purist

I would say, a purist attitude is not snobby. It is focussing on the purest form of the hobby. Nothing snobby about it.

People need to get over themselves and their silly egos.

Which includes accepting that everybody has their own route to bonsai. Some might get mightily tired of people cursing when they would like to keep to growing bonasi as pure as possible. You do not see them shouting at full strength on all corners of the internet.