summer heat/watering

[benw3790]

I have a question about watering and I decided to post Here so other people who are new to the hobby can see, as they might have the same questions or be in the same predicament. I have a day job, so during the summer, during the hottest part of the day, I won't be home to water my trees. I'll have to water them in the morning before I go to work and then again when I get home (if they need it) there is no way I can set up a self watering system, so thats out of the question. What are some things I can do to insure my roots won't dry out completely or burn while I'm at work. Cover the soil with sphagnum moss? Use smaller particle size in my substrate and maybe have more organics in my mix? Most of the material I have, likes full sun.but should I find a place to put certain trees where, maybe they'll be shaded out most of the day? Its hard to find a place that not full sun or full shade all day. Hard to find an in between spot. What are you guys thoughts on this? Do I have good ideas? Will they work? Thanks! BTW at least half of my material will still be planted in potting soil, so they should be fine. Sometimes only needing water, every other day in the middle of summer,

 

[FrankP999]

Sphagnum moss will help. Don't know your setup, but I use a shade cloth for a couple of months in the extreme heat of summer for more sensitive plants. Good luck.

 

[JudyB]

Why can't you set up a watering system if I may ask? That is the best and safest way to deal with this issue... I myself don't use mine all the time, but only when I can't hand water because of work, or other issues, or in the extreme heat periods when it may need more than 1 watering (or two...)

 

[Poink88]

Same dilemma here.

This is what I did. Add more organics in my soil and more fines also. I experimented with moss, burlap, etc. for top cover/protection but was not satisfied. Later I used red lava rocks. Not pretty but it really helped keep the pot colder, water passes through easily, and helps slow drying.

 

[lordy]

I was going to suggest a couple of things. I made a 4-post standard over one of my benches and put a piece of 4x8 Plastic lattice above that bench. The sun gets thru about 50% during the heat of the day. Due to the lower angle of the sun early in the day, full sun gets to those trees.
Something that I have not had to do, but similar to Poink's burlap, is to use several layers of white cheesecloth. White may help moderate pot temps, and the material is completely porous to allow water to go through. If sphagnum doesnt do it, perhaps try the cheesecloth over the sphagnum just to keep it cooler and perhaps less prone to drying out.
Also just thought of some sort of wicking apparatus.

 

[garywood]

Ah shit Ben, "-) It's the middle of winter and you want to stir the pot ;-) Soil water retention is "basically" either size or retentive capacity., If the size doesn't allow retention then a fine top coat is used., If it's too retentive you're, screwed

 

[mat]

Are you sure that they'll dry out with two waterings a day? In the summer I set my irrigation system to soak everything in the morning. Then I water as needed when I get home from work in the evening - much like the routine you're describing. It works for me, and I have plenty of trees in a pretty coarse mix with little organics.

If things really are drying out, I'd try small particle size with a top layer of chopped sphagnum. Maybe toss in some extra pine bark.

Check back in this summer and let us know how it's going and what you've found that works.

 

[nathanbs]

Here in Southern California I use 1/8"-1/4" soil particle size and top dress it with New Zealand sphagnum moss shredded through my 1/4" sieve with green dried moss crumbled into it as well. Use a thin layer approx 3/8". Combine this with appropriate natural shade or shade cloth as others mentioned. My conifers and most of my evergreens are in full sun without any shade. I water at 6:30 am and after 5:30 only as needed on several trees. Be careful with putting rags or cloths on top of soil to make sure you don't create a stagnant environment. I do not use any organics in my soil

 

[Beng]

While spagnum does work to retain moisture Yamagoke is better then sphagnum in just about every way when used as a top dressing. Sphagnum can cause rot around the base of the trunk it stays too moist. Although I imagine in Southern California staying too most isn't a problem on the east coast and most of the rest of the US it is. Sphagnum blows away when it dries out in the wind. Yamagoke binds to itself so it doesnt blow away, it stays moist but doesn't cause rot around the trunk. This comes from experience using both. I suppose using sphagnum around the trunk but not touching it to the trunk would work if you can't locate yamagoke. Http://www.satsukibonsai-en.com. That little compressed bale on the miscellaneous page expands to quite a lot.

 

[nathanbs]

While spagnum does work to retain moisture Yamagoke is better then sphagnum in just about every way when used as a top dressing. Sphagnum can cause rot around the base of the trunk it stays too moist. Although I imagine in Southern California staying too most isn't a problem on the east coast and most of the rest of the US it is. Sphagnum blows away when it dries out in the wind. Yamagoke binds to itself so it doesnt blow away, it stays moist but doesn't cause rot around the trunk. This comes from experience using both. I suppose using sphagnum around the trunk but not touching it to the trunk would work if you can't locate yamagoke. Http://www.satsukibonsai-en.com. That little compressed bale on the miscellaneous page expands to quite a lot.

Interesting I think I have heard about this kind of moss once before. Why do you suppose that sphagnum is used at all in japan then? I know of quite a few nurseries that use sphagnum. It doesn't blow away unless you let it get bone dry. You shouldn't ever let it get bone dry

 

[Beng]

Interesting I think I have heard about this kind of moss once before. Why do you suppose that sphagnum is used at all in japan then? I know of quite a few nurseries that use sphagnum. It doesn't blow away unless you let it get bone dry. You shouldn't ever let it get bone dry

Not sure do you know of any japanese nurseries that use it? When i was in japan last year the one nursery i saw using moss in the summer said they were using mountain moss. My wife said it was the same as the Yamagoke i'd been using on my trees at home. Yamagoke apparently translates out to something similar to mountain moss.

I'm sure sphagnum can be used successfully. I myself used live sphagnum for several years as a small portion of a soil component. As a top dressing i had problems with it on trees where it was left touching the trunks. Caused the bark to weaken and can eventually cause rot if left on for a year or so. I had it on a large crabapple and several other types of deciduous trees to stimulate root growth along their bases. All of them had their bark rotting where the sphagnum was left a little over a year. Could have just been the batch I used. I was getting my AAA sphagnum from repotme.com. I suppose if it was used only during the summer it may not be a problem. But summers in NY are very very humid. Much much more humid then California. I switched to yamagoke and never had a problem after. I leave it on year round on my satsuki and other acid loving trees but remove it in winter on all other types as its just not necessary.

Satsukis love the acidity it gives off.

 

[edprocoat]

Benw, I think the most important thing you should have included in your thread was the type of trees you have as most trees have differing water and light needs. Maples tend to burn in the direct heat and would benefit from the shade cloth mentioned here while pines it would not be as much a problem. Both Maples and pines would not be very happy wet all day either. Tropical varieties generally are the types you would not want to dry out between waterings along with Chinese elm varieties. Junipers you could allow both direct heat and either allow to dry out during the day or remain wet as they are very hardy and adaptable. Thuja tend to root rot when wet too long pretty quick in my experience with them, so do Berberry and Cotoneaster. Cypress types need as much water as you can give them and loads of light too.

ed

 

[Paradox]

I use alot of medium/large grained sand (larger than 1mm) and small grained gravel in my soil mix along with pine bark for my pines and junipers. With a few trees that like more moisture, Ill add either some top soil or top soil with peat moss mixed in if they like more acidic conditions.

Some people dont like using sand. I use it because it does retain some moisture between the grains and I dont need to worry about watering more than once a day. Most of the time I water every other day depending on which tree it is. Keep in mind that most of my trees are in large training pots so they dont dry out as fast as a tree in a bonsai pot.

The other reason I use sand and small gravel is that it is very cheap and readily available. So far the sand has been free to obtain and I bought 600 lbs of gravel last year for $22 from a company that owns a sand mine and sells the sand and gravel for landscape and other things. I have a few 55 gallon garbage cans out in the yard to store it in. The drawback is that I have to screen the gravel to remove the larger sized (> 1/4") rock but the cost outweighs the labor. I get about 50-60% usable gravel.

I simply refuse to spend a truckload of money on adacama. So far, my trees are pretty healthy and dont seem to mind the mixes Im using.
Buying adacama <<<< saving for retirement.

 

[Poink88]

Benw, I think the most important thing you should have included in your thread was the type of trees you have as most trees have differing water and light needs.

Good reminder Ed.

Most of my trees are tropical which doesn't mind "wet feet". My deciduous trees still get organics but not as much fines. Most are also in growing phase still. About 60% of my trees get full day TX sun.

In my case, on top of no auto sprinkler...no sun filter fabric is allowed also. Sigh

It really boils down on many factors and we just have to do what we have to do.

 

[Paradox]

Forgot to add that even where I am, I have problems with maples burning in the summer heat/sun.
I tried a spot with partial shade last year, but believe it or not it was actually hotter there than where I keep my pines, probably because it was next to a fence and had less air flow.

Ive got to try and work out a spot that I can put them under shade cloth this summer. I really love maples and would like to be able to enjoy their beautiful fall foliage.

Thankfully I dont live in a neighborhood association with their strict rules.

 

[GrimLore]

Forgot to add that even where I am, I have problems with maples burning in the summer heat/sun.
I tried a spot with partial shade last year, but believe it or not it was actually hotter there than where I keep my pines, probably because it was next to a fence and had less air flow.

Ive got to try and work out a spot that I can put them under shade cloth this summer. I really love maples and would like to be able to enjoy their beautiful fall foliage.

Thankfully I dont live in a neighborhood association with their strict rules.

I live about an hour from you and we would have burnt up maples without shade cloth, the 30 percent type works well for us but the local growers use 70 percent. They are sensitive even in the North East. Nice part is they don't mind the snow we are having as I type. 4 inches since 9am *sighs*.

Grimmy

 

[Paradox]

I live about an hour from you and we would have burnt up maples without shade cloth, the 30 percent type works well for us but the local growers use 70 percent. They are sensitive even in the North East. Nice part is they don't mind the snow we are having as I type. 4 inches since 9am *sighs*.

Grimmy

Yeah, I guess I should start looking for a shade cloth so I can get it before summer gets here.

It started snowing here 2 hours ago (9AM). Looks like Ill be leaving work early today to avoid a really bad evening commute.

 

[edprocoat]

Yeah, I guess I should start looking for a shade cloth so I can get it before summer gets here.

It started snowing here 2 hours ago (9AM). Looks like Ill be leaving work early today to avoid a really bad evening commute.

You know you can use the vinyl window screen for shade cloth too. It comes in grey, black, and green and makes a fine shade cloth, only thing is its not rated as a percent value of sun it lets through like regular shadecloth is. I used the green in the past and it works well, is very durable. The light it lets through is diffused and it looks nice too.

ed

 

[benw3790]

Ah shit Ben, "-) It's the middle of winter and you want to stir the pot ;-) Soil water retention is "basically" either size or retentive capacity., If the size doesn't allow retention then a fine top coat is used., If it's too retentive you're, screwed

Haha gotta keep all the old timers on their toes! You know jk I respect everyone Herer so in case any of you are old, don't be offended. I'm just a whipper snapper. Thanks for all the replies!! I can't set up a watering system, because idk how, for one.. Probably can't afford it, and I still live with my parents but I'm moving out in march. and idk howd they feel about me setting up something like that. Judy, can you elaborate on yours!? Which is also why I have no benches or anything. But im going to be using a basic mix of lava rock, chicken grit and pine bark. Those are the only three materials in my mix. I might put in some extra bark. I would really like to add pumice or akadama to my mix, but cant find it locally. The particle size is small. I'm not good with fractions and I have no idea how to measure it. But its like "shohin size" particles. Fits through the middle screen in my sieve set, which only has 3 screens. I also have another sifted batch of the bigger particles. Where do you get shade cloth?? I feel like that would be a really good option. This will be my first year using aggregate. Until now Ive always used organic potting mix with sand. Thats why I thought it would be a good idea to ask you guys because, where my trees sit, they get full sun, pretty much from the time it comes up, to the time it goes down. And I'll be gone to work, from 8am to 5 or 6Pm. Im gonna start out with some extra pine bark and some sphagnum moss and see how they do. Still very interested in shade cloth. And maybe a watering system, if its fairly cheap and easy to make. Especially if I move into an apartment in march and have to leave most of my material at my parent house. Thanks again everybody!! have a happy week! Its gonna be getting coooooold. Bout to bring my trees in now!

 

[nathanbs]

Haha gotta keep all the old timers on their toes! You know jk I respect everyone Herer so in case any of you are old, don't be offended. I'm just a whipper snapper. Thanks for all the replies!! I can't set up a watering system, because idk how, for one.. Probably can't afford it, and I still live with my parents but I'm moving out in march. and idk howd they feel about me setting up something like that. Judy, can you elaborate on yours!? Which is also why I have no benches or anything. But im going to be using a basic mix of lava rock, chicken grit and pine bark. Those are the only three materials in my mix. I might put in some extra bark. I would really like to add pumice or akadama to my mix, but cant find it locally. The particle size is small. I'm not good with fractions and I have no idea how to measure it. But its like "shohin size" particles. Fits through the middle screen in my sieve set, which only has 3 screens. I also have another sifted batch of the bigger particles. Where do you get shade cloth?? I feel like that would be a really good option. This will be my first year using aggregate. Until now Ive always used organic potting mix with sand. Thats why I thought it would be a good idea to ask you guys because, where my trees sit, they get full sun, pretty much from the time it comes up, to the time it goes down. And I'll be gone to work, from 8am to 5 or 6Pm. Im gonna start out with some extra pine bark and some sphagnum moss and see how they do. Still very interested in shade cloth. And maybe a watering system, if its fairly cheap and easy to make. Especially if I move into an apartment in march and have to leave most of my material at my parent house. Thanks again everybody!! have a happy week! Its gonna be getting coooooold. Bout to bring my trees in now!

its a miracle that you can keep anything alive with that abundance of knowledge