Suggest me soil recommendation for training pine bonsai

[Ali Raza]

Hello to everyone, I am training pine,ficus and juniper for the bonsai. Currently they are growing in local soil and sand mixture for more than 4 years in big pot. I want to change the medium for pre bonsai mixture from soil. I got pumice 12mm, crushed fire clay bricks 15mm, crushed granite 8 mm, compost, peat moss, coconut peat, coconut chips husk, pine barks and garden soil. Kindly suggest what should i add for pre bonsai mixture for pine still in training for good root and foliage growth along with their %. I do not want to experiment so please tell me the mixture already anyone using and getting good result. I will be using this mixture in large pot may be 12 inch or more and i live in sub tropical weather with hardiness zone 9b Islamabad, Pakistan.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

For my pines, this is what worked:
- 100% akadama.
- 15% perlite, 60% clay pellets (4-6mm), 10% sphagnum, 15% pine bark.
- 70% clay pellets (4-6mm), 20% bark, 10% perlite.

And basically every mixture in between, sometimes leaving half of the original soil as a half-bare root repot.

The clay pellets I use can be compared to crushed fired bricks. But a smaller size. Pumice would work just as well, but yours is too big.

As with every soil question, everybody will have their preference. You could hear 100's of personal mixtures which will all work. Its easier and less work to try and understand what a good bonsai soil should do, and how it works. This allows you to pick your own ingredients freely and make them work for you. There are a few good youtube videos around describing soils.

 

[Anthony]

For us what worked was a simple mix of silica based gravel
[ should have little else, but silica ] and aged compost.
5 mm size for the inorganic and used as 7 or 8 parts inorganic
to 3 or 2 parts organic.

Compost is supposed to hold 20 times it's weight in water.
So you don't meed much.

Plus grown in earthenware clay pots that are porous.
Internal depth of pot 13 to 15 cm [ 5 to 6 inches]
Length of time doing this - since 1987

Please note - J,b,pines from seed and Tropics here.
Good Day
Anthony

* We use no inorganics that can be crushed by roots or
decays with time.
Compost ages to an inorganic, able to hold water.

 

[Littlejoe919]

Equal particle size.
1 part pumice
1 part lava rock
1 or 2 parts akadama for moisture retention depending how fast your tree's dry out, and how often you can water.

Best of luck and welcome.

 

[River's Edge]

same particle size approx 3/16 inch. Screen all dust particles out.
2 parts pumice
1 part Akadama
1 part Lava
1 part Granite grit
Fertiliser with organic all numbers below 10.
Bottom layer one or two particles deep of larger Pumice. 1/4 to 3/8 inch.

This mix provides excellent drainage, aeration and is almost impossible to overwater. The advantage is that one can fertilise heavily and push fantastic growth in the beginning. Must have full sun

Your original post seemed to imply an answer including your components. That would not be my reccomendation. The post also requested a mix that works. The above does.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Pumice if available. 1/8-1/4 inch size.

 

[Anthony]

@Ali Raza ,

Have you no one of experience in Pakistan you can ask ?

Heard of the on-line PakBonsai ?

When getting advice on-line

[1] Check grower's years of experience.
[2] Check grower's work - from seed or cutting or air layer or purchased effort
[3[ Check images of grower's work.

Normally check your home zone first.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Ali Raza]

@Ali Raza ,

Have you no one of experience in Pakistan you can ask ?

Heard of the on-line PakBonsai ?

When getting advice on-line

[1] Check grower's years of experience.
[2] Check grower's work - from seed or cutting or air layer or purchased effort
[3[ Check images of grower's work.

Normally check your home zone first.
Good Day
Anthony

that forum had no activity since 2016 and they all talk about the things which are readily available in your region UK and USA. These things such as akadama, turface, lava roc, oil drier etc are not available here in Pak or they are too much costly which is difficult to afford. That is the reason i was asking for the help on this forum where bonsai trainer can suggest me some tips. I am trying my own experiment with soil but process is slow and i am alone here in this field right now.

 

[Anthony]

Ali,

if you contact @Gustavo Martins ,
he has a digital copy of Growing pines from Seed [ Bonsai Today ]
and maybe do a trade.

Becareful of what you put at the core of your pine seedlings.
Also read up - Bare Rooting of pines and refreshing the soil
[a] half removal of soil
[ b ]1/3 removal of soil

Ficus - Benjamina and our local willow leaf.
the soil is a simple 5 mm silica based gravel 9 parts
and 1 part compost.
Image below of depth and growth possibility.

Juniper, the others can help you with.
The few we have live in the same simple mix as stated
above.

Growing experience 39 years.
Seeds, cuttings, air layers and we have plants purchased
from China via the UK.
J,B,pine seeds since the late 80's.
BUT are still learning how to shorten the needles.

Look for articles by Marky Scott, Adair M, Rivers edge, Vance Wood,
Leo in Illinois, 0soyoung and you will see other names.
Might be easier to Google Bonsai Nut for information.
Good Day
Anthony

Local willow ficus - 2.5 cm of soil mix as sted above
responds well to branch extension 2013



Later - same pot - an extreme example of trunk thickening by a branch extension.

 

[Anthony]

Apologies for the Bold - Laptop glitching.

Pine from a cutting from a seed grown locally.

 

[Anthony]

Look into the Forums - 6 year J.B.pine competition.

 

[jeanluc83]

Pumice if available. 1/8-1/4 inch size.

+1

I would add 10-20% pine bark. Simple, easy and good for growing roots.

 

[leatherback]

Keep looking. Your inorganic component is too coarse to be honest. I would go for something in the 2-8mm range.

Have you seen this?
https://www.growingbonsai.net/characteristics-of-good-bonsai-substrate/

 

[Kendo]

This has standard that is working around the world. hai.

1: Akadama
1: Lava Rock
1: Pumice

SOme want to save money are using 30% to turface. Hai

Critical at this stage is the root system. Hai Using pond basket to let root air prune will keep desirable root system easily. Hai Rot will move outward. Hai Hai!

Here is example of some tree I planting this year. Hai I am leaving wire to show stop point on sacrifice branch. Hai You will wire past the next leader. Hai We will next cutting wire at the strait point. Hai Create the movement that is flowing in all directions, Subtle, SLowly. Hai! If bend is strong the tree will be undesirable. Hai I say to you must look to future of trunk diameter to see what is working. Hai This is where it is critical like the soils to see future of tree. Hai Look in your mind if trunk is 8cm, WIll bend crash sharply or flowing with harmony? Hai

Thank you discussion Pine soils and future of planting. Hai Thank you Thank you.

 

[KeithE]

Not many bonsai folks live in Pak, so some experimentation and adaption is needed. I don't understand the reason for numerous akadama recommendations, but a good ratio to try would be 50% of your large pumice, 40% pine bark (assuming its in small pieces), 10% sand. The large pumice will work fine in your large pots. Add a layer of pine bark on the surface if it dries out too fast in the summer. Pines should grow very well in your area. Use a colander if available.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

This has standard that is working around the world. hai.

1: Akadama
1: Lava Rock
1: Pumice

SOme want to save money are using 30% to turface. Hai

Critical at this stage is the root system. Hai Using pond basket to let root air prune will keep desirable root system easily. Hai Rot will move outward. Hai Hai!

Here is example of some tree I planting this year. Hai I am leaving wire to show stop point on sacrifice branch. Hai You will wire past the next leader. Hai We will next cutting wire at the strait point. Hai Create the movement that is flowing in all directions, Subtle, SLowly. Hai! If bend is strong the tree will be undesirable. Hai I say to you must look to future of trunk diameter to see what is working. Hai This is where it is critical like the soils to see future of tree. Hai Look in your mind if trunk is 8cm, WIll bend crash sharply or flowing with harmony? Hai

Thank you discussion Pine soils and future of planting. Hai Thank you Thank you.

Hi Kendo,
Thank you for your wise words about Pine design and their development theories ?.
I am wondering if you might be able to write a tutorial ( or translate from your Japanese books) on the years 1-6 of a Pine’s life for our resource section on this site.
Thanks again for the reminder of smooth bends and not sharp kinks etc.
Charles

 

[Potawatomi13]

Many things will work. Soil wars 10.0? PNW folks blessed with pumice. Cheap great substrate for most conifers. Many do not have or too expensive for locale. Except for hardest baked kakadama breaks down to mud may force repot years before needed in older trees. Pumice does not. If shorter potting times needed is kakadama OK and has added snob appeal to some.

 

[Anthony]

Bark = 35 to 40 % of it's weight in ability to hold water -
e.g 10 gms bark can hold 3.5 gms to 4.0 gms of water.

Additionally will compost in as little as 3 months and will
hold too much water.

Remember compst holds 20 times weight in water.
e,g 50 gms of compost holds 1000 gms of water ] 1 litre ]

So 50 gms bark first holds around 20 gms of water.
composts and becomes 50 gms x 20 times = 1000 gms of water.
Plus you have to deal with the composting process and
new watering habits.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[leatherback]

bark ... Additionally will compost in as little as 3 months and will
hold too much water.

maybe in the tropics. here it holds 2 years at least..

 

[Anthony]

Leatherback,

2 points.

[1] The information given came from the older heads at IBC
back in 1998. IBC was a great source for shared information
from older heads. [ Some dead now ]
In 1998 we were in our mid 30's and this is why we normally
seek out older growers for information. This is US based
information, not Tropics.

[2] What happens to your untouched core [ the heart of your
tree's soil ] when composting occurs ?
Remember the chemical activity for composting.

Things that slow doiwn a tree, bare rooting, large wounds
that use a concave knob cutter for example, composting
soil.

If you need some proof just ask.
Good Day
Anthony

A drawn design.
1 to 3 years in the ground. trunk and 6 branches.
3 more years for branch refinement.
Use a colander in ground growing.
Bonsai for exhibition in under 10 years..........
Modern Bonsai.