Substrate for scots pine and JBP

[TacomaBonsai95]

Hey everyone!
I'm currently developing some JBP and Scots pines. They are between 2 and 5 years old from seed. Last year I was pretty unhappy with the performance I got from the soil I mixed up (too much water retention). I'm leaning towards repotting into a mix of pumice and small particle size orchid bark mix. Does anyone have suggestions about what works well in the early stage of development? I'm in the puget sound area of Washington state.

 

[defra]

Hey everyone!
I'm currently developing some JBP and Scots pines. They are between 2 and 5 years old from seed. Last year I was pretty unhappy with the performance I got from the soil I mixed up (too much water retention). I'm leaning towards repotting into a mix of pumice and small particle size orchid bark mix. Does anyone have suggestions about what works well in the early stage of development? I'm in the puget sound area of Washington state.

Hi to answer the question.
i use a base mix of moler clay, pumice, pinebark and it works fine all 1/3 parts.
I guess pumice with bark will work also...

However they can be grown in lots of soils but before saying its the soil narrow it down why did it got to wet or at least you mention the water retention.
... did it rain to much? Did you water to much or to often? If it was rain some shelter can make a difference or if to often watering adjust the watering etc Or maybe even adding drainage holes ... its often not only the soil that is a problem, not saying you are doing it wrong but to help you think what you could possibly do when you run into this sort of things in the future!

 

[TacomaBonsai95]

Hi to answer the question.
i use a base mix of moler clay, pumice, pinebark and it works fine all 1/3 parts.
I guess pumice with bark will work also...

However they can be grown in lots of soils but before saying its the soil narrow it down why did it got to wet or at least you mention the water retention.
... did it rain to much? Did you water to much or to often? If it was rain some shelter can make a difference or if to often watering adjust the watering etc Or maybe even adding drainage holes ... its often not only the soil that is a problem, not saying you are doing it wrong but to help you think what you could possibly do when you run into this sort of things in the future!

I definitely think it was a mix of overwatering and too much rain during the spring and fall. However, the mix I made was still wrong for what I'm trying to do. I used too much diatomaceous earth and too much organic material. Not enough pumice and perlite.

 

[jevanlewis]

What kind of pots are they in so that we can understand drainage? I live in a really dry climate and have my JBP (all in development) in Anderson Flats in 100% pumice (1/8"-1/4"). I think this mix works fine in my climate because I am able to stay on top of watering, but I am still surprised that this mix works well for me. I used to live in the PNW, and would not hesitate to go 100% pumice or 50% pumice / 50% lava for pines, especially those in development.

There are several users on this site (@Deep Sea Diver is the first who comes to mind) who can provide much better advice than I can.

 

[defra]

I definitely think it was a mix of overwatering and too much rain during the spring and fall. However, the mix I made was still wrong for what I'm trying to do. I used too much diatomaceous earth and too much organic material. Not enough pumice and perlite.

i live in the Netherlands and i use 1/3 Diatomaceous earth 1/3 pumice 1/3 pine bark
we get lots of rain also and i hardly ever worry about over watering my tree's as long as the pots have proper drainage holes i like to use pond baskets because of that for my jbp seedlings.
its also the volume of the pot if the pot is to big the roots will not influence the moisture level of the pot much so this can lead to problems
since you are growing pines you want the beneficial bacteria mychoriza growing in your pot!
it is white and atached to the roots and visible in the soil it actualy helps the roots to take up water and nutrients so if you are going to repot them into a new medium make sure to use some of the old soil
posting some pictures might help to explain what is exactly the disapointing results that made you make this post

 

[TacomaBonsai95]

What kind of pots are they in so that we can understand drainage? I live in a really dry climate and have my JBP (all in development) in Anderson Flats in 100% pumice (1/8"-1/4"). I think this mix works fine in my climate because I am able to stay on top of watering, but I am still surprised that this mix works well for me. I used to live in the PNW, and would not hesitate to go 100% pumice or 50% pumice / 50% lava for pines, especially those in development.

There are several users on this site (@Deep Sea Diver is the first who comes to mind) who can provide much better advice than I can.

I use pond baskets. Only a couple of my trees have actual signs of overwatering. I may not have mixed the soil well enough, causing some pots to be filled with more diatomaceous earth than others. I'm mostly just trying to dial in a good mix that will be more consistent and cheap to make

 

[River's Edge]

Hey everyone!
I'm currently developing some JBP and Scots pines. They are between 2 and 5 years old from seed. Last year I was pretty unhappy with the performance I got from the soil I mixed up (too much water retention). I'm leaning towards repotting into a mix of pumice and small particle size orchid bark mix. Does anyone have suggestions about what works well in the early stage of development? I'm in the puget sound area of Washington state.

For the earlier stages a lot of options are possible. I would encourage straight pumice of medium particle size with 5 to 10 % fir bark. This will be free draining and also hold a fair amount of moisture. The main factor will be you watering routine and time availability before creating a mix. This will also have implications for fertilization and stage of root ball development. The mix will also change dependant on the container size you prefer to employ.
As a grower of developing stock there are a lot of factors specific to your particular situation that meed to be considered. Take some time to lay out the basic variables before deciding. If you want experienced advice, you will need to provide more information along those lines of variables.
Just a thought.

 

[Tahoebonsai]

I do 70 percent perlite 30 percent peat moss but I’ve seen some of the best jbp in Japan grown in just 100 percent river sand which I’m going to be trying soon