Styling in my mind Vs Reality

[Bonsaithusiast]

I've been thinking lately, if a tree that is ready to be styled, keeping me from how i want it to look depending the amount of branches, foliage the tree has. I ask this because I can picture how I want a JBP with Foliage pads, with one branch pointing to the left, the second one up pointing to the right and the third one up being the cap. So would it be better to analyze and examine the tree and then picture how you can style with what i have on the tree or is it possible to make it to your will no matter what, id really like to hear this community's thoughts and ideas. P.S (this is all imaginary and i actually don't have a JBP on hand, just trying to get yall's ideas and how you guys would do it, perhaps for enlightenment if you will.)

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

It's somewhere in the middle for me; yes I can do whatever I want, but only if the plant works with me.
I have a scots pine that I've been developing from the first branch and it's exactly doing what I'm guiding it to do.

And then there's a juniper that I styled that is now losing an entire branch that snapped. So I'll have to rethink what it's going to look like.

If you're willing to cut back to a single branch and start from there, there's a high chance that you can do as you want. If you have material that's further developed, it may require grafting or advanced techniques to be styled as you want. Or, maybe it just wouldn't work exactly how you want it, and it's then time to re-adjust your vision.

 

[Hartinez]

I've been thinking lately, if a tree that is ready to be styled, keeping me from how i want it to look depending the amount of branches, foliage the tree has. I ask this because I can picture how I want a JBP with Foliage pads, with one branch pointing to the left, the second one up pointing to the right and the third one up being the cap. So would it be better to analyze and examine the tree and then picture how you can style with what i have on the tree or is it possible to make it to your will no matter what, id really like to hear this community's thoughts and ideas. P.S (this is all imaginary and i actually don't have a JBP on hand, just trying to get yall's ideas and how you guys would do it, perhaps for enlightenment if you will.)

Very few things in Bonsai bend to our will. IMO. So much of what we do is making lemonade from lemons. I’ve only seen a few artists who truly bend bonsai to their will. The best ones though don’t have to. They guide the tree in the direction they want for years and years until everything they need is present so there is no need to force a design that just isn’t there yet.

 

[bonsaichile]

Yes, to reinforce what @Hartinez and @Wires_Guy_wires said, it is better to work with the tree and not against it

 

[Sagebrush]

I agree that you probably should go with the flow of the tree. Pictured is an Italian Cyprus. I am tying to develop a cascade out of it. Knowledgeable folks on this site told me this difficult because of upright growing habit. After 3 months the upright portion is backbudding. The cascade branch has been sitting there the whole time as if to say This isn't in my nature. No die back, just in stasis. Most on this site know their stuff.

 

[Shibui]

Sometimes you can make the tree into what you want, especially if it is already inclined that way for a start or if you start early enough. I start lots of shohin sized bonsai from very young stock and work towards a vision of the completed tree. Often it helps to have a vision to work towards because that will help make growing and pruning decisions. If the tree varies from the vision along the way be prepared to be flexible and change tack.
Sometimes the tree will fight you all the way or not have the required basics to get to your imagined ideal style. In that case go with different options as suggested by the tree's growth and shape.

 

[Bonsaithusiast]

Very Interesting replies, Because I was thinking this question was a bit rhetorical cause obviously why not work with the tree instead of your will. but im pretty sure I can guess some people out there do work the tree to their will and the trees might not be right for what they desire. SageBrush's Reply was a good example of that. Thank you all. this site packs a punch! Ill definitely keep posting.

 

[MaciekA]

If you want to bend JBPs to your will and have strong control from the beginning, then a good way to get there is either growing from seed or buying very early (year 1) seedlings and doing a lot of year-1 wiring and material preparation from the very beginning. That is how you match what you see in Japanese amateur nurseries (i.e. lots of twisty/turny trees). By generating a lot of material and manipulating that material from day 1. We're certainly obligated to go with what the tree wants once it's big enough, but the closer to inception you intervene, the more that is possible.

Starting with landscape nursery material might limit options, similar to @Sagebrush 's tree. In that case, barriers against a cascading design are earlier or stronger wiring and earlier replanting with a more appropriate angle.

Speaking of which, @Sagebrush , I don't think the growth habit negates the ability of a cypress (or your cypress) to take a cascade form in bonsai. Wiring makes cascading designs, not growth habit. Many apically-dominant tree species get turned into cascading designs and would, without bonsai practices, revert to apically-oriented. But that's no surprise -- all bonsai cease to be bonsai if they're treated like houseplants instead of bonsai, so this doesn't block you from reaching your cascading goal. I would argue that with bigger/stronger wire and repotting with a different angle, it's still possible. Certainly more steps, but not violating any rules of physics or biology.

 

[BrianBay9]

On the other hand, if you don't have a mental vision of the styling, you'll never get there! You just have to make sure your vision is matched by the material.

 

[ShadyStump]

some people out there do work the tree to their will and the trees might not be right for what they desire

Anyone who grafts shimpaku on to a Rocky Mountain juniper to get tighter foliage.
Just sayin', if you don't like what the tree has to offer, don't get the tree. That's all.

There are ways to force a tree to match the mental photo you took. Grafting foliage, root grafting, controlling nutrients and sunlight; @Wires_Guy_wires is even experimenting with epigenetic manipulation. It is 100% possible to create Frankenstein's tree, get full on Little Shop of Horrors with it even.
It's fascinating to watch, and the results don't look half bad.

But seriously, you just took away an absolutely gorgeous RMJ from someone who could appreciate it for what it already had!