Something Interesting...Should I?

[brewmeister83]

So I went to a local nursery today to pick up some perlite and fertilizer and I got chatting with one of the managers there (he now recognizes me as the "bonsai guy" whenever I visit). Anywho, he asked me how my trees were doing, I said fine - and then somehow, I can't remember exactly, we got talking about what I would look for in a tree. So I say "not something "pretty," something gnarled or something with character - mature bark or a big fat trunk." He says, "ya know, we've got a bunch of old stuff sitting in the back for, jeeze, longer than I've worked here... Really just want to get rid of the stuff, might even be able to get ya' a good discount, wanna go take a look?"

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...
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YES!!!!!!!

So we go out back, and I see a few interesting things, yews with fat little bases about 4" across, a few larch that have inch+ trunks with branching still down low (btw, I'm definitely going back for those, I'd be an idiot not to for $60!) and then I see a little ways off what I think are some 10-12' American white pines in 5 gallon pails. So I ask "what cultivar of strobus are those?" He says "where? oh, those? they're Korean actually..."

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...
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What? Really?!?!?!?

So I go take a look, sure enough - Pinus koraiensis glauca. The smallest of the three was over 1.5" at the base. Now, I know they're going to be rootbound as hell, I know they're going to take some serious work to either backbud or graft, heck I might even just end up layering off sections from the trunks if the roots turn out to be horrible - but Korean pine stock that's producing mature bark for under $100 each? Should I?

Part 2 - I know Korean pine is a 5 needler, would that mean it's care is similar to JWP? Or is it remarkably different? (the only info I currently have is for JWP, JBP, and Mugo cultivation...)

P.S. sorry there's no pics, I was so excited when I was walking around behind the greenhouse I forgot all about the phone in my pocket...

 

[sorce]

P.S. sorry there's no pics, I was so excited when I was walking around behind the greenhouse I forgot all about the phone in my pocket.

More often than not!

Hell yeah brew!

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

Before you get TOO excited...

I'm not familiar with Korean Pines, so I googled it. And looked at the images of the tree.

Here are my thoughts:

Your first impression that it was an Eastern White Pine should give you an idea. It would appear to be very similar. I saw long thin "droopy" needles. That style needle usually doesn't ever look "refined" as bonsai. And they generally appear to have long internodes.

I'm thinking it will be a difficult project.

 

[Txhorticulture]

Gymnosperm database describes this one as slightly larger tHan parviflora, and generally occurring at higher elevations and zone 3 hardy as opposed to 5. My guess is that cultivation similar but it would be even less heat tolerant, which is probably not a big deal in Connecticut go for it.

 

[brewmeister83]

Before you get TOO excited...

Yeah, that's why I came home and slept on it and consulted you guys first.

Your first impression that it was an Eastern White Pine should give you an idea. It would appear to be very similar. I saw long thin "droopy" needles. That style needle usually doesn't ever look "refined" as bonsai. And they generally appear to have long internodes.

It's funny, I think the same thing about JBP and Pondys, but people still use them for bonsai. As far as the internode issue, I could always leave them large and make a Dai sized bunjin, or maybe do something daring and turn them into a giant 3 tree planting! Worst case scenario I could always bring them back to health and put them in the garden - they might make a nice specimen planting. Wait, don't the Japanese have a word for "tree too big to use as bonsai but still trained like bonsai in the garden"?

 

[Adair M]

JBP needles are very manageable, if you know how. Pondy's less so.

In fact, on some of my highly refined JBP, I'm having the issue that the needles are TOO short!

 

[brewmeister83]

JBP needles are very manageable, if you know how. Pondy's less so.

In fact, on some of my highly refined JBP, I'm having the issue that the needles are TOO short!

Oops, misunderstanding...I might have worded that wrong, not saying they're not manageable... was implying that on larger un-worked material the needles appear longer and unruly to me. Of course they'd be different under bonsai culture.

 

[GrimLore]

Wait, don't the Japanese have a word for "tree too big to use as bonsai but still trained like bonsai in the garden"?

Far Eastern topiary - no BS it exists...

Grimmy

 

[brewmeister83]

Far Eastern topiary - no BS it exists...

Grimmy

Yup, I knew it existed, I was just trying to remember the name - I know the Japanese have a name for every little thing... Just found it in Naka's Bonsai Techniques I.

Page 121, under "Different Sizes of Bonsai"

"1. Large Bonsai (OMONO BONSAI)
The maximum size is about four feet tall, not including the pot, and is termed as two man, three man and four man lifting size. If it is larger and taller than four feet, it is called a HACHI-UYE and is mainly displayed in a yard or for a temporary display in a large building. A trained tree, not in a pot, but planted in a garden is not considered a bonsai. This is called NIWA-GI, even if it is smaller than four feet."

Knew I remembered reading it somewhere...

 

[brewmeister83]

So a couple weeks ago I went back and bought the larches - 4 in total.
They were in reaaallly rough shape, looked like they hadn't been watered in days and the needles were starting to show signs of stress - during the hottest two weeks of summer no less Still, the guy gave me a deal at $75 each if I took all four (he just wanted to get rid of them) - and each tree was 6ft+ and could be potentially layered so I could get 12+ trees out of it, so I thought it was a good deal.

Here they are after a couple weeks of care and recuperation:

the three amigos


trunks are 1-1.5" at the base with branching still down low. Even If I don't get any layers from these I've got a plan for all three


The big one


Trunk is 2+ inches at soil level! Plus it also has lower branches and it's already forming mature plated bark!


Can't wait for next year to get here so I can repot them and start to get the roots sorted out. 2 Years after that is airlayers, oh boy oh boy

 

[davetree]

What kind of larches are they ?

 

[brewmeister83]

What kind of larches are they ?

larix decidua 'pendula' or European weepers - might mean that wire might take longer to set, but they are able to be trained upright.

Not my first choice since I'd rather have the native variety, but they're still hardy to zone 3 and have spent the last 10+ years overwintering in pots, so hardy enough in my book

 

[sorce]

I think you should make a forest.

A scary ass forest.

Nice.

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

I'd rather have the native variety,

I know a guy.

 

[aml1014]

I have a silveray korean pine and it's a beautiful tree just a little finicky with the heat. My advice is keep them slightly moist not as dry as most pines and if you have intense sun like here in new mexico it's gonna absolutely need shade clothe once in bonsai soil. Since keeping mine more moist and in some shade it's recovered from my mistake of treating it like a black pine but I learned.

 

[brewmeister83]

I know a guy.

I may take you up on that offer sometime in the future. Right now I'll gain some experience with this lot so I get used to the genus, and maybe when I clear out some space in the yard in a few years time I'll get a nice ol' native larch...

 

[brewmeister83]

I think you should make a forest.

A scary ass forest.

Nice.

Sorce

I was thinking the same thing - definitely a forest, but scary? I'm not carving these like Lenz's Halloween tree... Thinking more along these lines since the trunks are already wavy:



First two are from Taikan-ten, can't remember where I found the last two...

 

[sorce]

but scary

Sorry. I left some things in my brain.

I was thinking of this.

larix decidua 'pendula' or European weepers - might mean that wire might take longer to set, but they are able to be trained upright.

And in using it to your advantage.

Let em weep. Let them make people weep!

I just don't think you should fight what they do.

Natural scary. Hell, I wouldn't even walk into that tent on a dark night! They are scary already! Lol

Sorce

 

[brewmeister83]

Sorry. I left some things in my brain.

I was thinking of this.


And in using it to your advantage.

Let em weep. Let them make people weep!

I just don't think you should fight what they do.

Natural scary. Hell, I wouldn't even walk into that tent on a dark night! They are scary already! Lol

Sorce

I see what you're sayin'... Interesting... Well, they do save me the trouble of having to wire the branches down after all...