Sibling rivalry, or rather, fratricide!

[PiñonJ]

I collected this pair of White Firs (Abies concolor) last year. They were growing together in the bank of a bar ditch. They both seemed real healthy last year. The buds opened well, the foliage was dense and they both had good color right through the winter. Things started changing this spring. The smaller tree started pushing buds, but the larger one remained static. By late spring, the small tree was exploding with growth and the large one steadily lost color. Seems that the smaller tree is taking all the resources in the grow box and starving its sibling!
Last year, 28 June:

Today:

 

[JudyB]

I really like white fir trees, I have a number of them in my landscape. I hope you have success, I've always wanted to try one.

 

[Arcto]

The larger one might be gone. If no green in the bud tips, might consider cutting back so the smaller one gets more light.

 

[PiñonJ]

The larger one might be gone. If no green in the bud tips, might consider cutting back so the smaller one gets more light.

Good point, but the smaller one doesn't seem to be having any problem. Those paler needles are the SECOND flush of growth this year! Guess this little guy doesn't know it's an elongating species!

 

[PiñonJ]

Hey, @wireme, you ever seen behavior like this?

 

[wireme]

Hey, @wireme, you ever seen behavior like this?

No, I don't know what to make of that. I've never even seen a conifer grow that well the first year then kick the bucket so fast the next. Any Firs that I have ever lost just didn't grow at all the first year then slowly died within the next seasons. Never had a white fir though. I don't think we should blame the other tree but can't really say??

 

[wireme]

Did the brown one set viable buds last year?

 

[PiñonJ]

Did the brown one set viable buds last year?

No, it didn't.

 

[Arcto]

I don't want to speculate on what happened to other folk's collected material. I didn't collect it, can't see the rootball, roots, etc. I will say that when the heat of summer hits, I sometimes have to revert from happily patting myself on the back to shuffling collected stuff to different sun exposures, misting more, watering more, watering less, etc, etc.. Sometimes they make it and sometimes they don't. Unfortunately it's a time when a tree that is still compromised can suddenly head south without a lot of warning.

 

[wireme]

No, it didn't.

I think that the bud set after elongation is the big indicator of how well the tree fared during the season. The elongation of shoots can tell you more about the previous season than the current one. I think so anyways, you could look up the term predetermined growth in conifers for more on that ( and I'm not sure if that would back up my theory or not, just something I've heard about that I've been meaning to look into more). Anyways good bud set always makes me confident, good elongation and growth with poor budset at the end will have me worried.

 

[PiñonJ]

I don't want to speculate on what happened to other folk's collected material. I didn't collect it, can't see the rootball, roots, etc. I will say that when the heat of summer hits, I sometimes have to revert from happily patting myself on the back to shuffling collected stuff to different sun exposures, misting more, watering more, watering less, etc, etc.. Sometimes they make it and sometimes they don't. Unfortunately it's a time when a tree that is still compromised can suddenly head south without a lot of warning.

I think @wireme is right. This tree's fate may have been sealed last year. I was concerned when I didn't see any buds swelling on it this spring. The tree it shares a grow box with has done remarkably well. In my limited experience, I've never seen a tree push such strong growth. It's just really interesting that two trees starting with similar vigor, growing in identical conditions took such different paths.

 

[sorce]

@wireme @PiñonJ

You all did see the Mirai on Doug specifics yes?
Yes no Doug...white...but...
...I was thinking a y'all when I saw it.
Maybe same.

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

The smaller tree could survive on the roots left at collection. The bigger tree would have probably have made it if it had a few more roots maybe.

 

[wireme]

@wireme @PiñonJ

You all did see the Mirai on Doug specifics yes?
Yes no Doug...white...but...
...I was thinking a y'all when I saw it.
Maybe same.

Sorce

Nope, is there still a way to see it?

 

[PiñonJ]

The smaller tree could survive on the roots left at collection. The bigger tree would have probably have made it if it had a few more roots maybe.

That's one of the possibilities, but neither of them seemed to suffer from collection.

 

[sorce]

Nope, is there still a way to see it?

I only catch the free ones......now!


https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCySosTz4WDK7Pxe5G2juT4g

Sorce

 

[PiñonJ]

Interesting update on this one. It turns out this actually was what I originally thought at collection: twin trees growing from the same root mass. I changed my mind when I put it in the grow box because when I put tension on a chopstick between the trunks with tie-down wire, the trunks separated a little, making me think it was separate trees, but it was just because they were young and flexible. So it turns out the death of the one trunk was just self-pruning. At any rate, the second trunk continued to grow strongly, but without a lot of interest. The grow box was falling apart, so I had to do something with it. With all the strong branches, I decided to make a raft. I removed several branches and wired the rest over to one side:

 

[PiñonJ]

@JudyB , I don't know if you ever ended up trying one of these, but, aside from initially killing off the one trunk, this tree has been a strong grower and hasn't had any issues horticulturally.

 

[JudyB]

I have not yet tried one, I think they would need to be a larger tree than I currently have space for, but someday I'll give them a shot. I also think they'd be a better tree for me once we move to CO than here in Ohio, although my landscape ones do wonderfully here.