Shohin Satsuki Neagari development

[baron]

Last year I purchased this little satsuki Hibai with the intend to make a cascade or semi cascade out of it.
I'm still not sure this is the best plan for the tree, but the branches need to thicken up a little and it also needs root work so I'll start there.

I've read quite a lot on how to create the neagari, but I haven't worked on any myself.
The person I bought it from told me to gently remove the remaining soil from between the roots.
This makes sense but as I'm also planning on repotting the tree I was wondering how far down I can go and what the dimensions of the new pot should be.
Any other tree like this (little trunk, no main branches, ...) but without neagari I'd put in a slightly bigger container to develop the trunk and main branch structure.

I have a shohin pot (slightly wider, but more shallow) that would make a great fit but I'm not sure if the tree is ready for it?
What would happen if I put this in a bigger pot? How will this affect the roots above the soil?

 

[baron]

Hope I didn't take too much off the bottom.

 

[electronfusion]

How is it doing since?

 

[Tieball]

Good....you got rid of that moss. Hmmmm....but it looks like you have a root ball sitting on top of the substrate. More chopstick time needed?
I've often wondered how these are stabilized in the pot. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

 

[baron]

How is it doing since?

So far so good! Had loads of lovely flowers last year.





Currently its in winter storage and haven't had much time to check. But I'll have to soon since they'll be waking up soon because of the high temps we've been having past winter.

Good....you got rid of that moss. Hmmmm....but it looks like you have a root ball sitting on top of the substrate. More chopstick time needed?
I've often wondered how these are stabilized in the pot. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

Yes indeed, I need to prie out more of the finer roots and soil with a chopstick. Probably will be doing that in a year or two.
Gonna let it recover a bit to be sure as I'm not very experienced with these myself.

I found a few pdf's online with more info on the neagari creation. Do these answer some of your questions?

http://members.iinet.net.au/~arthurob/satsukisociety/SatsukiNewsletter12009.pdf

http://members.iinet.net.au/~arthurob/satsukisociety/SatsukiNewsletter32008.pdf

 

[baron]

During the summer I was having a hard time keeping it moist tho... I misted as much as I could, but with the next repot I'll be using 100% kanuma. (now its a mix of kanuma/pumice)

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Really nice, I like it.

 

[sorce]

Yeah!

Sorry this got missed before!
WtF!?

Does that pot have 4 legs?

I'd like to see it with one leg forward.

Though with that health, I'd like to see it in something a hair more shallow and smaller.

Nice.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Wider, shallow and wider.

Sorce

 

[baron]

Yes, four legs.

Sorry about the crap image quality and angle, but 1 leg forward
I'll try n make a better one this weekend.

 

[Pitoon]

I like it a lot. When you plan to do the repot?

 

[baron]

I like it a lot. When you plan to do the repot?

Don't think I'll repot this one this year.

 

[Pitoon]

Any updates?

 

[baron]

Oh I forgot I had a topic about this one

Euhm, it's still growing strong! I haven't really touched the elongating branch, but kept the other branches in check.
Going to repot this year after flowering (as Sorce said into a Wider, shallow and wider pot ) and do another cut back.
Think it stays a little too wet in this pot/substrate combo.

Went out to grab a quick shot. I'll post a better one when it's in flower and after the repot.

 

[Pitoon]

Oh I forgot I had a topic about this one

Euhm, it's still growing strong! I haven't really touched the elongating branch, but kept the other branches in check.
Going to repot this year after flowering (as Sorce said into a Wider, shallow and wider pot ) and do another cut back.
Think it stays a little too wet in this pot/substrate combo.

Went out to grab a quick shot. I'll post a better one when it's in flower and after the repot.

View attachment 435201 View attachment 435200

Personally I think the width of the current pot is fine, maybe a bit shallower would look better.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Nice tree! I emailed Arthur a couple times about this set up. He’s been a mainstay in Australia azalea bonsai if I recall.

Yep, concur with @Pitoon.

As you mayrecall, the shallower the pot, the more moisture the pot will hold. So if you are intent on going shallow, plan on having a drier media. or one like Kanuma that is hard to overwater.

On styling, it seems perhaps more work would never called for in the future to widen/broaden the base unless you plan on keeping the top growth in check.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[baron]

As you mayrecall, the shallower the pot, the more moisture the pot will hold. So if you are intent on going shallow, plan on having a drier media. or one like Kanuma that is hard to overwater.

Thnx, Can't take full credit for it ofcourse

Hmm, I can see how that works.
So far in my few years of learning and experience I've found Satsuki's to be more or less almost put into slightly deeper pots because they like the moisture but don't like wet feet (can't do bonsai without a little contradiction).
So I'm still on the fence about the shallowness of the new pot. I have a few options ready, so we'll see when it's time.

As for the medium. I use Kanuma for all my Satsuki's, but I mix it with like 15 - 30% pumice to add a little more drainage for our wet fall/winters. So far it's been working quite good imo.
For really small pots I go 100% Kanuma in the smallest particle size.

I'll keep you posted and will keep the advice in mind

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Sure enough.

Basically a tree cared for properly in Kanuma cant be overwatered due to its water retention characteristics. (Nakayama) That’s one of the reasons the Japanese originally shifted to using Kanuma back in the early 1910-20’s. I use pumice in a 90/10 Kanuma/pumice blend to make the soil a tad more friable, not for improved drainage. Yet if you think a higher percentage of pumice works best for you, why not?

As you mentioned Azaleas are normally grown in deeper pots. They are moved to shallower pots before shows to give a sleeker look to the composition, not for health.

Just some thoughts.

cheers
DSD sends