Shohin Chinese Elm

[SeanS]

I bought this little Chinese elm from a local bonsai nursery about a month ago. It had the best trunk out of about 50 similar sized elms. I knew I’d be regrowing the top so wasn’t too concerned with the branches but it had some decent primaries.



When I bought it there were already 2 buds that had started to open, but they along with the rest of the branches were chopped, and the original chop cleaned and sealed.

Over the past week the remaining buds started to swell and green up, so it was time to repot.





The root ball




After reducing the roots




Onto a plastic board it went

 

[SeanS]

... and then into a mix of crushed LECA and peat



Tomorrow I’ll add a later or sphagnum. It’s started warming up here so I’ll need to watch the moisture levels. This is my first time using a primarily inorganic mix, I was surprised at how quickly this drained when I watered it in.

I got 4 root cuttings but only potted up the 3 on the right. I’ll post some photos of the potted cuttings tomorrow.

 

[sorce]

I was digging the choice of material, since it has a Great primary start.

Right with the cut back, perfect too.

Thought about removing some of those buds.

Loved the "the root ball" pic, thinking that's a great start to a decent wide base.

Then got right scared at the "after reducing the roots" pic.

Thought I shouldn't post till you're done, and while typing the next post appeared.

I think this tree can live, but I believe Walter has taught us that, though this kind of massive root hacking is across the internet accepted, it is much better, faster, and easier to develop a great tree with less root work.


Good Beer! (The name)

Sorce

 

[JoeR]

... and then into a mix of crushed LECA and peat

View attachment 317259

Tomorrow I’ll add a later or sphagnum. It’s started warming up here so I’ll need to watch the moisture levels. This is my first time using a primarily inorganic mix, I was surprised at how quickly this drained when I watered it in.

I got 4 root cuttings but only potted up the 3 on the right. I’ll post some photos of the potted cuttings tomorrow.

View attachment 317260

Damn thats a root pruning. Nice work, those root cuttings will be fun to work with as well, I have a few that started just like that.

 

[coachspinks]

I have one almost exactly like that one and did virtually the exact same thing you did. This was February. I have already cut back 12-18" shoots twice.

 

[SeanS]

I have one almost exactly like that one and did virtually the exact same thing you did. This was February. I have already cut back 12-18" shoots twice.

Glad to hear yours is doing well. Hoping mine will progress as expected and put out some good roots and growth up top.

What was your after care like? Fertilize in a month?

 

[leatherback]

I think this tree can live, but I believe Walter has taught us that, though this kind of massive root hacking is across the internet accepted, it is much better, faster, and easier to develop a great tree with less root work.

Not convinced :|
I think you need to work the roots at some point, and doing it when you still have a ot of crown development to do makes sense to me?

looking forward to a green update in a month!

 

[coachspinks]

Glad to hear yours is doing well. Hoping mine will progress as expected and put out some good roots and growth up top.

What was your after care like? Fertilize in a month?

Two weeks in a shade spot. I gradually moved it into the sun. Yes, fertilizer in about a month.

 

[SeanS]

Not convinced :|
I think you need to work the roots at some point, and doing it when you still have a ot of crown development to do makes sense to me?

looking forward to a green update in a month!

Agree with @leatherback. Walter isn’t messing around with $17.55 (today’s equivalent $ cost of my little tree) seedlings
If you start with great, natural looking material like he does then you don’t need to start the roots from scratch

 

[SeanS]

Here are the root cuttings potted up

 

[sorce]

work the roots

Yes, but not to "death"!

The idea is, you pot the first picture, which quicker grows too and bottom, them at the next time we work the roots, you have something to cut back to that will keep the engine going.

I keep this feeling of 50% to stay above.

This is taking it into 10-20%, which is into the need to keep fingers crossed.

Above 50% and you don't need to worry, and....
It develops faster.

This goes into a weak state that it can survive from, there is just no good reason.

Sorce

 

[SeanS]

@sorce I’ll update my thread monthly through the growing season regardless of the outcome of my repot and we can gauge the results of my actions. If things go badly then hopefully others will learn about your 50% 10% 20% method

 

[sorce]

badly

I don't think there can be a badly technically, especially since you are rooting the root cuttings.

Plus, I can't say I know how fast your new roots will grow all the way out of proportion. So this "into negative" thing may be required.

I was just really feeling the wide base that was building with those rootage.

The Data will be welcome.

You know what, this can be your climates 50%.
I guess it would work that way. We all can establish these numbers that work.

In regards to roots growing out of proportion, when you stick em in proper root pruning baskets, it seems to freeze that first bit of large first Roots, it's quite fantastic.

I've also noticed that this, "as above so below" is quite true when regrowing things from "skinned back" states.

So If you end up with 2 strong shoots up top, you're almost garaunteed 2 strong roots below, which sucks.
So you have to already begin ramifying the tops, and it's not necessarily that cut that we kills trees, but it puts them into a state where one wrong happening can kill them.

This is why I think it's better to NOT skin back so far, it's not only horticultural, it maybe more for aesthetic reasons.

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

Zelkova.. DId not skip a beat..




I SHOULD have potted it up and developed. Nstead I did ugly pruning and planted it in the growing bed again. It is very ugly now. Maybe time will heal my incompetence.

 

[Mycin]

What is the advantage of such a heavy root prune anyways? Avoiding the need for more root work next season?

Pruning up top looks great, you've good eye to see the potential in this tree at a nursery. I, too, thought the rootwork looked a bit heavy but I'm a beginner so I'll be following this thread to see what happens. Thanks for sharing!

 

[leatherback]

What is the advantage of such a heavy root prune anyways?

In the end, you do not want the big roots, you want the thin stuff in your pots. So you try to not create massive roots to begin with, making it easier to ater reduce the rootball to a suitable size? Rather hav 20 small roots over 3 thick ones.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Exactly, hard pruning of the large thick roots, right away in the beginning, will eliminate large thick roots "forever". That way you can develop a proportionate root system. Saves slow incremental work later.

 

[sorce]

What is the advantage of such a heavy root prune anyways?

They won't outweigh the disadvantages.

Proper soil and a proper Air-Prune basket only makes feeder roots, so thick roots won't get any thicker.

"Better to have em and not need em, than need em and not have em."

My biggest problem with this particular one, is the first, and in the forward facing instance, second, root division segments were in good proportion to the trunk, so mission now, is to grow them right back to what they were, to them cut at the appropriate distance for division. Near a complete waste.

Sorce

 

[BobbyLane]

i like the bold, no messing about approach, it should be a better tree for it in the future. most wouldnt have had the kahoonies to take the top back that much let alone the roots. i think youve been doing this a while...

 

[SeanS]

i like the bold, no messing about approach, it should be a better tree for it in the future. most wouldnt have had the kahoonies to take the top back that much let alone the roots. i think youve been doing this a while...

I haven’t! Only just been into bonsai for a year.
I’m just following what I’ve seen on Bnut, @markyscott’s chuhin elm broom thread give me guidance for the root reduction. It’s a small cheapish tree, I felt it was a good way to learn and see what can be achieved with a repot.

Obviously I wouldn’t do this sort of work to any tree, my 2 maples that will be repotted soon won’t be cut back as hard.

I will admit the buds have slowed slightly. I saw more movement in them the week leading up to the repot than I’ve seen in the last week since the chop. But they’re still red/green and look juicy and more of them are plumbing up each day, so I’ll just keep watering as needed and let the little guy do his thing.

Another driving factor for the big repot was that I don’t want to have it in a plastic grow pot for any longer than I need to. Why not go all out the first time around and see what happens. Bonsai takes time, but the least amount of time the better.

If anything I think we’ll all learn from my thread