Selling year-old Baldcypress seedling in hand-made ceramic

[rockm]

You know Kimura? yeah, sure...


FWIW, yo also might know John Naka, who predates Nick Lenz in American bonsai. Naka was the 'Father of American Bonsai" and has a number of trees at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum. You might be familiar with his most well-known work "Goshin"

I bring this up because many if not all of the trees in the planting were created through the process you call "an affront" to bonsai. You're still waay to young to understand that bonsai plays the long game. What appears drastic initially becomes beautiful with time and care--evolving wabi, sabi, yugen qualities.

Below are pics of the evolution of Goshin (taken from Naka's Bonsai Techniques II book--which you can find for around $30-50 if you look around). The photos cover primarily the development of the largest tree from a twenty foot yard tree in 1954ish to the center tree in Goshin as it is today. He used the same process as the one you described as an affront" to bonsai. Naka learned bonsai techniques in Japan and made them available to Americans (And the world) over the decades.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Just another ecological vigilante hipster it turns out.

Why not find an actual environmental organization to pair with?

 

[newtown_arboretum]

You know Kimura? yeah, sure...


FWIW, yo also might know John Naka, who predates Nick Lenz in American bonsai. Naka was the 'Father of American Bonsai" and has a number of trees at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum. You might be familiar with his most well-known work "Goshin"

I bring this up because many if not all of the trees in the planting were created through the process you call "an affront" to bonsai. You're still waay to young to understand that bonsai plays the long game. What appears drastic initially becomes beautiful with time and care--evolving wabi, sabi, yugen qualities.

Below are pics of the evolution of Goshin (taken from Naka's Bonsai Techniques II book--which you can find for around $30-50 if you look around). The photos cover primarily the development of the largest tree from a twenty foot yard tree in 1954ish to the center tree in Goshin as it is today. He used the same process as the one you described as an affront" to bonsai. Naka learned bonsai techniques in Japan and made them available to Americans (And the world) over the decades.

View attachment 621633View attachment 621634View attachment 621635

Outdated perhaps?

 

[rockm]

Outdated perhaps?

nah brah.

 

[Lara_Ericacious]

 

[littletreefarmer]

Why not find an actual environmental organization to pair with?

That would take real effort and action, not just aesthetics and feelings.

 

[littletreefarmer]

The point is you are not supposed to sell ANYTHING collected with a RESEARCH permit. Your motivation or aesthetic sense makes no difference, you are trying to sell it period.

Do not lecture me on the environment/ecology.
I have a masters degree in it, have been working in the field for 30 years and am very familiar with New York environmental regulations.

Being that BC are not native to NY, they will most likely not be allowed to be used as a restoration plant for Newtown creek.
Doing so would alter the ecosystem you are claiming you are trying to restore/protect.
Perhaps you should focus on the plants that will be allowed, such as native wetland plants.
For that matter, Id suggest working with an actual agency, or not for profit that is actually doing restoration work.

Im so glad you chimed in! He doesn't seem to want to respond to an actual researcher, though. Hmmm..

I wondered if the NYC Parks & Rec would be interested in this thread or info. There was, supposedly, a legal document that was fraudulently completed, if he really got the permit at all.

The fine is up to $15k by the way, so I guess we all understimated the value of this divine specimen Taxodium.

 

[littletreefarmer]

@newtown_arboretum I know you think you're being cute, maybe. But this is real life bro. These laws are in place to stop people like you harming these ecosystems. We all, as taxpaying Americans, own that tree you collected. Anyone who really cared about conserving in NYC would probably have a moral obligation to report your dumb ass.

Your stupidity is reckless. And I mean that in the most positive way possible. Check yo self bro.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Im fairly confident that these would have not only survived the lawn mower,

But they would have actually been one step closer to becoming bonsai than your ignorance will allow you to realise

 

[Paradox]

Why not find an actual environmental organization to pair with?

The thing is, there is at least one not for profit organization, possibly more, actively doing restoration projects in Newtown creek. They report to have over 70 projects proposed, completed or in progress. One major component is restoration with NATIVE species adapted to the environment of Newtown creek. Newtown creek is an area that has a salinity typically around 20 ppt. It varies with rainfall and tidal influence of course. Bald cypress can't live in salinity that high so even if it was native to NY, it would not be a candidate for a restoration project in that area.

 

[newtown_arboretum]

The thing is, there is at least one not for profit organization, possibly more, actively doing restoration projects in Newtown creek. They report to have over 70 projects proposed, completed or in progress. One major component is restoration with NATIVE species adapted to the environment of Newtown creek. Newtown creek is an area that has a salinity typically around 20 ppt. It varies with rainfall and tidal influence of course. Bald cypress can't live in salinity that high so even if it was native to NY, it would not be a candidate for a restoration project in that area.

Thanks for this. Definitely a serious consideration given the fact that Newtown creek experiences tidal inflow. You're right to cite saline variability, but my gut tells me you're wrong.

As far as natives/invasives/indigenous biosphere debate goes (assuming salinity isn't prohibitory), could we agree that some cases of enviro degradation warrants reasonable introduction of species unique in their ability to roll back anthropogenic impact where natives have failed? I realize that's a complicated question, one that I continue to wrestle with. I understand where you're coming from and believe that in general human intervention inevitably has unintended consequences.

I only suggest this restoration attempt due to the unique condition of Newtown Creek today.

I suggest reading mainstream ecology papers where conservation-minded ecologists/biologists suggest the same

 

[Orion_metalhead]

The thing is, there is at least one not for profit organization, possibly more, actively doing restoration projects in Newtown creek. They report to have over 70 projects proposed, completed or in progress. One major component is restoration with NATIVE species adapted to the environment of Newtown creek. Newtown creek is an area that has a salinity typically around 20 ppt. It varies with rainfall and tidal influence of course. Bald cypress can't live in salinity that high so even if it was native to NY, it would not be a candidate for a restoration project in that area.

What species would be best proposed for a site like that? I would guess they would be similar to the species we see in brackish inlets here along the NJ coast?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Folks... we're talking about a bald cypress seedling here. I think the OP was pretty open about saying it was a seedling in a handmade pot. If you are interested, make an offer. If not, perhaps provide some constructive criticism and move on. I'm not sure why people are getting so worked up about this thread.

 

[rockm]

worked up because along with that pathetic seedling came a heaping helping of misinformation and plain ignorance. The people he accuses of various sorts of affront and questionable behavior are people I know and people I know are far from what he accuses them of being

 

[newtown_arboretum]

worked up because along with that pathetic seedling came a heaping helping of misinformation and plain ignorance. The people he accuses of various sorts of affront and questionable behavior are people I know and people I know are far from what he accuses them of

Frankly I think you're intimidated by complicated language. It's like you read the individual words but can't understand the concepts. I'm telling you this because you insulted me. You're out of your depth

 

[Gabler]

Frankly I think you're intimidated by complicated language. It's like you read the individual words but can't understand the concepts. I'm telling you this because you insulted me. You're out of your depth

This is definitely a troll—a sesquipedalian troll, but a troll nonetheless.

 

[vesper818]

Rare clays and glazes may figure into the price, but seedling aside, any value of this offering would be in the usability of bonsai for this pot.
I would most like to see pictures of the inside and underneath the pot. Has the artist studied and made bonsai pots before? How is it constructed? Is it glazed inside? Does it have feet?
Please show us pics.

 

[Paradox]

What species would be best proposed for a site like that? I would guess they would be similar to the species we see in brackish inlets here along the NJ coast?

Yes, typical native tidal wetland plants.

 

[Paradox]

Thanks for this. Definitely a serious consideration given the fact that Newtown creek experiences tidal inflow. You're right to cite saline variability, but my gut tells me you're wrong.

As far as natives/invasives/indigenous biosphere debate goes (assuming salinity isn't prohibitory), could we agree that some cases of enviro degradation warrants reasonable introduction of species unique in their ability to roll back anthropogenic impact where natives have failed? I realize that's a complicated question, one that I continue to wrestle with. I understand where you're coming from and believe that in general human intervention inevitably has unintended consequences.

I only suggest this restoration attempt due to the unique condition of Newtown Creek today.

The thing is, Newtown creek is a highly impacted water body. There has been decades of habitat destruction, multiple inputs of pollutants both sewage and industrial.

It's not a quick fix and it will take a lot of money and time.

They are addressing the issues as they can. They are cleaning up the superfund site, upgrading sewage input sources, cleaning up brown field sites, restoring habits back to wetlands. All of this takes time to do and to return functionality to the wetlands. It will take at least a decade, probably more.

No I don't believe introducing a non native species will ever be better than restoring the native ecosystem. That practice and the hubris of humans has caused more ecological problems in too many places already. Wetlands and the native wetland plants are already excellent filters. They just need to be given the chance to work and the sources of the problems (pollution, habitat destruction) stopped.

 

[Paradox]

Double post. Phone had a hiccup