Seiju Chinese Elm- winter inside?

[KingJades]

I heard that ulmus parvifolia can be wintered indoors and kept awake but does that also apply to the seiju varieties? I have some high output T5 lights to keep it going.

I'm prepared for the s***storm as everyone debates whether Chinese Elms (parvifolia) can be wintered indoors. It's a hot topic but there are apparently many people successfully keeping them awake over winter.

 

[aml1014]

I purchased one a while back in December and it was in a tropical greehouse, so I put it into my tropical greehouse reported and everything and it did fine. I think it can be done, but I've learned that it's best to just leave them outside as its less stress to keep them healthy. Plus winter is a good break!

Aaron

 

[GrimLore]

I heard that ulmus parvifolia can be wintered indoors and kept awake but does that also apply to the seiju varieties? I have some high output T5 lights to keep it going.

It depends a few things -

1) Who you ask.

2) If a 2016 purchase where was it grown and shipped from? If it came from a Southern grower you may want to bring it indoors for the first Winter. After it goes back outdoors I would then leave it outdoors as it should become acclimated. If you keep bringing it in depriving it of dormancy it may live a few years but will never be strong.

3) How you Winter it when acclimated if already so.

Grimmy

 

[rockm]

I heard that ulmus parvifolia can be wintered indoors and kept awake but does that also apply to the seiju varieties? I have some high output T5 lights to keep it going.

I'm prepared for the s***storm as everyone debates whether Chinese Elms (parvifolia) can be wintered indoors. It's a hot topic but there are apparently many people successfully keeping them awake over winter.

It is not a hot topic. It's not ideal and will kill your tree eventually.

 

[KingJades]

I was mostly just looking to do it for this one season. I got it as a gift about 2 weeks ago, but figured I missed the window for it to start dormancy so was going to keep it inside for the first winter then move it outside in the spring and keep it outside after that.

It hasn't been outside since it was delivered, but is by a good window and under HO T5. Is it still early enough to put it outside and catch the autmun ramp down or am I actually stuck with this as an inside tree for one season? When I move to outside I would keep it in a morning sun/afternoon shade spot to get it started.

If I can run into dormancy I would winter it by heeling into a hedge row and mulch up to branches.

 

[GrimLore]

I was mostly just looking to do it for this one season.

As I said earlier if it came from a Southern grower especially that recently you may get away with keeping it alive this Winter. From what I see though your temperatures are going to be pretty warm for awhile during the day and over 40'sF at night Myself I would put it out in direct sun all day and go for it outdoors BUT that is me...

Grimmy

 

[rockm]

How do you know you missed the window for dormancy? If it were mine, I get it out into the weather. Let it get hit by a few frosts and a freeze or two, then bury it pot and all up to the first branch with hardwood mulch in a sheltered area of your backyard (assuming you have one) and let it be until early April.

 

[KingJades]

How do you know you missed the window for dormancy? If it were mine, I get it out into the weather.

Definitely don't know! Most of the other trees have already turned to the autumn colors and are dropping leaves so figured thrusting a fully green elm out into the wild now was a little late.

I'll contact the group where the tree came from and try to find out its original origin and where it was wintered.

 

[0soyoung]

Definitely don't know! Most of the other trees have already turned to the autumn colors and are dropping leaves so figured thrusting a fully green elm out into the wild now was a little late.

I keep my suiju outdoors here - they seem to be entirely driven by temperature. If I didn't get a frost, I think they would stay green and not drop leaves until spring bud break. Elms and temperate trees in general 'harden' for winter by sugaring up their tissues - a process that is triggered by repeated overnight frosts.

In other words, it is not to late to put it outside - if you were having hard freezes, it would be. You can likely keep it indoors over this winter, instead - your biggest problem will be giving it enough light.

 

[KingJades]

Elm is now outside. Couldn't get in touch with the original folks yet, but it is going to be pretty warm the next few days so it should be able to acclimate nicely from indoors. Partial direct sun.

The soil is VERY crappy and poor draining. It's essentially sandy potting soil.... quite unhappy about that. Will need to get it into better soil come spring.

I can't let it frost/freeze with wire on it, right? Got some small wires pulling some lower branches down to the horizontal.

 

[aml1014]

I can't let it frost/freeze with wire on it, right? Got some small wires pulling some lower branches down to the horizontal.

It's fine to allow the tree to freeze with wire on it, just not good to wire and bend a branch when it is already freezing.

Aaron

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

And 48 inch fixture with 8 lamps, HO T5 at 6500K, is not quite bright enough to get tight growth out of a JBP, but it is good enough for some trees, including juniper procumbens. Less than 8 lamps, and there will not be enough light to keep ''full sun'' trees happy. Winter growth under lights is usually leggy and weak, you will probably end up cutting winter growth off in spring to get a good summer growth. Shade tolerant trees could be done unter HO T5.

It takes at least 30 to 60 days to fully acquire winter hardiness, extrapolating from grape (vinifera) and blueberries, crop info studies MSU. Winter hardiness builds incrementally, as sugar content in tissues rise and water content falls. Water gets moved out of cells into spaces between cells, so when freezing, ice crystals don't rupture cell membranes. An aside, 48 hours above freezing in middle of winter, lowers freeze resistance enough that blueberries normally hardy to -15 F (-25 C) are damaged at 0 F, (-15 C),

So I would let your elm get a few frosts, but bring it in before serious cold. Winter under your lights, plan on cutting off leggy winter growth in spring and then continue with it as an outdoor tree.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I live in Southern California. I would argue that keeping Chinese elms outside in the winter in Southern California is somewhat akin to keeping them indoors in a cold room in Penn. Our average lows in December and January are mid-to-low 40's, with average highs in the upper 60's. We never get frost - certainly never a hard freeze. My Chinese elms (including my seijus) have a short dormant period of about two months. They will slowly stop growing about this time of year, and drop all their leaves for December and January, and will normally be pushing buds the first week of February. They are the first deciduous that I have that will push buds - almost the same time as my peaches start to flower. Note that my other elms - English elms, Japanese elms, Wing elms, have a longer dormant period and won't bud till later.

Interestingly, I can get them to "skip" a winter if I trim them hard in September, October before they are dormant. They will push new growth in October / November, and never drop leaves all winter long.

I personally believe you can keep Chinese elms as tropicals, or as deciduous. If you bring it indoors, however, just make sure to give it plenty of light and try to keep it in a cool area while you "fake" a winter/cool season. Don't put it on top of a radiator and don't feel like you have to put it in a humidity tent or something similar.