Seeking resources on how to prune - still indecisive and confused

[zeejet]

As a beginner, I've generally had no issues finding good information on most aspects of the craft, but still haven't found clear guidance on how to prune and style bonsai. After searching for videos, most of them are just experienced artists pruning a tree without providing digestible commentary or instruction. Even Peter Chan's videos on pruning tend to lack any clear explanation of the decision making process.

I was able to obtain good nursery stock and a few potted bonsai at good prices from local nurseries and garden centers - I have decent understanding of watering needs, soil composition/amendment, and even how to repot - but I still have no idea how to prune (and consequently can't really judge potential for pre-bonsai as I can't visualize how it might develop with pruning and wiring). Right now I'm just keeping them alive and not doing much else beyond that - they feel like fancy houseplants at the moment.

Can anyone recommend a resource for learning to prune? All formats welcome (video, blog, book, etc.)

 

[RJG2]

This is probably where everyone should start in my opinion:

Principles of Bonsai Design

This upgraded 2nd edition of Dave De Groot's masterpiece features superior organization and content, including easily accessible how-to graphics, design and easy to follow well written text. Everything you need to develop and advance your bonsai understanding and skills. And it's significantly...

stonelantern.com

 

[Deleted member 47471]

1. Welcome!
2. Add your location / zone to your profile
3. Describe your plants/shrubs/species
4. Provide pics of the 1 in question/ to prune
5. If it’s a Juniper (great!) and if not (save these anyway as a file):

A)

(basic/seasonal - Development stage)

B)

(further basics of Development)

C)

(further basics - branch development)

D)

(Development stage vs. Refinement stage)

E)

(explanation and demo of creating structure and styling)

F) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LduXqbCF-DI&pp=ygUUQmluc2FpIG1pcmFpIG51bmlwZXI= (closer detailed seasonal work in Refinement stage)

Happy growing!

 

[dbonsaiw]

This is a very loaded question. When I talk about "styling" bonsai I use that term basically synonymously with "developing" bonsai. When I started with bonsai, I came across many videos of folks picking up nursery stock and chopping up/heavily wiring the tree - and voila a "bonsai". As far as I'm concerned, this doesn't work. I for sure cannot create bonsai this way and don't waste my time/material trying anymore. I have done some truly maniacal things to many a spruce attempting this "bonsai in one go" method. Unless one purchases a very expensive "finished" bonsai tree that has been grown for bonsai over a long period of time, we will need to "develop" our material over time. Pruning will play a huge role in this process.

There are essentially three areas of the tree that will require pruning over development and the life of the tree - (i) roots, (ii) trunk; and (iii) branches. Two things to internalize right from the start - (i) bonsai takes a long time to develop (don't be the kid in the car asking "are we there yet"); and (ii) your tree will not look good for many years as you develop it. The second notion was very hard for me to swallow at least.

Pruning and growth are the essential tools of bonsai development of roots, trunk and branches - we will always be trying to strike a certain balance between growth and pruning depending on the specific stage of development. Starting at the roots, we are always trying develop our nebari - the tree's lateral root flare - from day one to the end of the tree's life. At the correct time, the tree is repotted, roots cut back and arranged laterally and the tree replanted. The roots are allowed to grow for a season or 3 and then we do this again. Over time, the roots ramify and form the base of our tree. These aren't just roots - they are providing the initial girth, taper and even movement of the tree.

Trunk and branch pruning will depend on the material we have in hand and the goals in mind. And there is an order of operations of sorts here - trunk development comes before branch development. Of course, we will need branches to grow leaves to perform photosynthesis and feed the tree, but we are not necessarily "styling" these branches if the trunk is still in early development - they may not be part of the final design of the tree.

Remember, we are ultimately trying to create certain proportions of the tree on a smaller scale than what we see in nature. The tree will absolutely not develop these proportions unless we intervene - the trees will naturally try to grow giant. There are many "rules" of proportion that you should read up on, but these are not rules in the sense that something bad happens if you break them, but rather these rules are observations of what the general public finds aesthetically pleasing. For example, a 1:6 ration of thickness at base of trunk to height of tree. So if I want a 15" tree, I will need a 2.5" base. If I have a stick in the pot seedling, I will arrange my nebari and let the tree grow for some years to get the base I need. With deciduous trees at least, when I have my base, it's time to prune the trunk - 1/3 of the size of the final tree is a good rule of thumb. My very tall shoot is now a 5" stump. A new leader is grown, perhaps movement is added here by angling the new leader, and this is allowed to grow again until I have the next section of my trunk with some taper. It will be cut back again. As Brent from Evergreen Garden Works says - we are growing trunks at this point.

Back to notions of balance - trunk thickening is all about free growth. More leaves = more photosynthesis = more food = fatter trunks. It's as simple as that. Pruning takes away the source of food and slows growth. On the other hand, big chops leave big scars that take longer to heal. So you will ultimately need to trade off between faster growth and smaller scars/better taper & movement. This is one of the things you will need to play around with and find your preferred way.

Once the trunk is further along, we can start keeping branches we like. Again, notions of proportion will dictate. Lower branches are generally thicker than higher ones. To maintain proportion, we will prune what we want to slow down and allow what we want to thicken to grow. Pruning will be used to also create taper and movement in the branches, much like we did with the trunk.

Pruning will be used to create ramification in the branches. This not only looks great, but it also causes the leaves to reduce in size. The basic process is keep the branching diving into two. If there is a place where the branch splits into 3 shoots, cut one off. Prune the other 2 back to 1 or buds and let it ramify again. Repeat this season after season until you are satisfied with the branch structure. Wire can also be used to add movement to the branches and sub-branches.

At some point, we have a tree that we are no longer attempting to really develop further - instead, we want to maintain the structure/style that we have already developed. We will try to prevent shoots from extending altogether by pinching and similar pruning processes to limit growth so things don't overgrow lengthwise or widthwise.

There are a number of questions that need to be answered before putting any of this into practice. For example -

(i) Is the tree deciduous, conifer or tropical? Each will have their own general way of proceeding along the bonsai development path.
(ii) What specific type of tree are you working with? Trees will vary in their responses to development work.
(iii) & (iv) What stage is the tree at/where do you want it to ultimately be? If you have a young tree, chances are you need to grow and not prune. Perhaps you found some good nursery stock or splurged on some better pre-bonsai - you could be further along in the process, maybe you have 2/3 of a tree and need to start on branching and re-do the top 1/3 of the tree.

On a final note, pruning in combination with wiring (and sacrifice branches) will be used to create a "style" for the tree. The trunk on a formal upright could be cut at 1/3 the final height with one branch wired straight up for the next section of leader. If more movement is desired for an informal upright, the cut could be made in the same place with the leader wired on an angle to create more of an "S" shape. Allowing multiple leaders to grow from the cut and then pruning those back to ramify will create a broom.

 

[rockm]

As a beginner, I've generally had no issues finding good information on most aspects of the craft, but still haven't found clear guidance on how to prune and style bonsai. After searching for videos, most of them are just experienced artists pruning a tree without providing digestible commentary or instruction. Even Peter Chan's videos on pruning tend to lack any clear explanation of the decision making process.

I was able to obtain good nursery stock and a few potted bonsai at good prices from local nurseries and garden centers - I have decent understanding of watering needs, soil composition/amendment, and even how to repot - but I still have no idea how to prune (and consequently can't really judge potential for pre-bonsai as I can't visualize how it might develop with pruning and wiring). Right now I'm just keeping them alive and not doing much else beyond that - they feel like fancy houseplants at the moment.

Can anyone recommend a resource for learning to prune? All formats welcome (video, blog, book, etc.)

You can read theory on the proper way to prune bonsai till your eyeballs fall out. The more you read, the more you may get confused.

Best teacher is experience. Just do it. (save your better stock for later when you have a better handle on what to do). Doing it will make what you're reading make more sense.

If you can find someone in person who can guide you with specific trees--each tree is different and demands different solutions--ask them to show you what paths you can take --every tree has many different solutions, some better, some worse. Local bonsai clubs are great resources. If you don't have that, just begin on a tree. See where it leads you. A lot of this is instinctual--think Mr. Miyagi in Karate Kid, corny but:

"Close eye. Trust. Concentrate. Think only tree. Make a perfect picture down to last pine needle. Wipe your mind clean everything but tree. Nothing exists whole world. Only tree. Just trust picture."

It's subjective and the "art" part of bonsai. It takes a while to learn. Even those who have been doing this for quite a while struggle with design and finding the best path forward with trees.

I have friends who own a bonsai nursery, but when they began they were contractors for a bonsai merchant who did mass sales. Their first day on the job, they had a truck load of small junipers dumped in their driveway and they were told to "make them into bonsai." They just dove in and learned what worked and what didn't. After a year of pruning, wiring and repotting 1,000 trees, they were pretty good at "seeing" a tree in a raw nursery stock tree.

Although you don't have truckloads of trees to work on, beginning bonsai is something like this for everyone starting out. Learning what to do involves something of a leap of faith in yourself. Be a bit fearless, keep some concern for the tree in mind and have at it. Keep in mind you can't make a cake without breaking some eggs and your efforts can (and will likely) kill a few trees. Happens to everyone.

 

[zeejet]

You can read theory on the proper way to prune bonsai till your eyeballs fall out. The more you read, the more you may get confused.

Best teacher is experience. Just do it. (save your better stock for later when you have a better handle on what to do). Doing it will make what you're reading make more sense.

If you can find someone in person who can guide you with specific trees--each tree is different and demands different solutions--ask them to show you what paths you can take --every tree has many different solutions, some better, some worse. Local bonsai clubs are great resources. If you don't have that, just begin on a tree. See where it leads you. A lot of this is instinctual--think Mr. Miyagi in Karate Kid, corny but:

"Close eye. Trust. Concentrate. Think only tree. Make a perfect picture down to last pine needle. Wipe your mind clean everything but tree. Nothing exists whole world. Only tree. Just trust picture."

It's subjective and the "art" part of bonsai. It takes a while to learn. Even those who have been doing this for quite a while struggle with design and finding the best path forward with trees.

I have friends who own a bonsai nursery, but when they began they were contractors for a bonsai merchant who did mass sales. Their first day on the job, they had a truck load of small junipers dumped in their driveway and they were told to "make them into bonsai." They just dove in and learned what worked and what didn't. After a year of pruning, wiring and repotting 1,000 trees, they were pretty good at "seeing" a tree in a raw nursery stock tree.

Although you don't have truckloads of trees to work on, beginning bonsai is something like this for everyone starting out. Learning what to do involves something of a leap of faith in yourself. Be a bit fearless, keep some concern for the tree in mind and have at it. Keep in mind you can't make a cake without breaking some eggs and your efforts can (and will likely) kill a few trees. Happens to everyone.

Thanks for the perspective - I'm well aware of my tendency to overconsume information and hesitance to take action without it (not just in bonsai, but in other aspects of my life as well). The issue I suppose is that I have limited space and an undeveloped sense of patience relative to the time scale of the hobby.

For context, I'm only in my mid-30's but I'm concerned that I won't gain any traction until I spend at least a decade in this hobby. I also tend to dive fairly deep into hobbies, but bonsai seems to involve a ton of waiting so all I can do is consume information. My other hobbies tend to be physical (surfing and rock climbing) where progress tends to be very rapid in the first two years while I feel antsy and restless with bonsai. I guess that's a learning and personal growth opportunity haha.

My local club has a beginner course but it's so popular you need to win a raffle to get in. I think this is probably my best bet long-term in conjunction with attending meetings and becoming part of the local bonsai community.

 

[zeejet]

1. Welcome!
2. Add your location / zone to your profile
3. Describe your plants/shrubs/species
4. Provide pics of the 1 in question/ to prune
5. If it’s a Juniper (great!) and if not (save these anyway as a file):

A)

(basic/seasonal - Development stage)

B)

(further basics of Development)

C)

(further basics - branch development)

D)

(Development stage vs. Refinement stage)

E)

(explanation and demo of creating structure and styling)

F) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LduXqbCF-DI&pp=ygUUQmluc2FpIG1pcmFpIG51bmlwZXI= (closer detailed seasonal work in Refinement stage)

Happy growing!

Thanks for the recommendations!

I live in San Diego, which is a Zone 10b with a Mediterranean-like climate.

I currently only have deciduous, semi-deciduous, and evergreen trees (Chinese elm, Japanese boxwood, Natal plum, Trident maple).

The boxwood is the only tree that came as nursery stock while the others are mystery-bag "finish" bonsai from Brussel's Bonsai. In my eagerness to enter the hobby, I had purchase three trees that are in bonsai soil/pots but are very underdeveloped and will likely need to go back into a large pot for growth (but that's a question for another thread).

As such, the boxwood is the only one that hasn't already been pruned and shaped (it's winter currently and there has been virtually no growth on the other three to prune).

 

[rockm]

Thanks for the perspective - I'm well aware of my tendency to overconsume information and hesitance to take action without it (not just in bonsai, but in other aspects of my life as well). The issue I suppose is that I have limited space and an undeveloped sense of patience relative to the time scale of the hobby.

For context, I'm only in my mid-30's but I'm concerned that I won't gain any traction until I spend at least a decade in this hobby. I also tend to dive fairly deep into hobbies, but bonsai seems to involve a ton of waiting so all I can do is consume information. My other hobbies tend to be physical (surfing and rock climbing) where progress tends to be very rapid in the first two years while I feel antsy and restless with bonsai. I guess that's a learning and personal growth opportunity haha.

My local club has a beginner course but it's so popular you need to win a raffle to get in. I think this is probably my best bet long-term in conjunction with attending meetings and becoming part of the local bonsai community.

Attending meetings can set up contacts and let people get to know you--which is important (and understandable and depressing in a world where bonsai thefts are a real concern). With repotting season approaching, it might be worth posting a note, or letting people know at a meeting that you'd provide free assistance with repotting work. Say you're not an expert, but you want to learn hands-on how to do it. Bet you get some requests. Repotting is a chore, but it's also major decision time for redesign plans or execution as well.

FWIW, bonsai isn't really about a lot of waiting. There's always something to be done almost every day--bonsai is a series of small things done regularly over a long period of time.

Also FWIW, I used to ski quite a lot, was an instructor for a while. The immediate learning curve for that was steep, but pretty quick. However, once someone reached a plateau of sorts with their skills, they needed something to push them into the next level. Sometimes that was individual instruction, sometimes it was a class with two or three others. The same can be true for bonsai. IF you can't get a beginner course at the club, see if others are interested in a study group, etc.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I also tend to dive fairly deep into hobbies, but bonsai seems to involve a ton of waiting so all I can do is consume information.

I am a kindred spirit. Whether it was jiu jitsu or guitar building, I consumed mass amounts of information and then went to practice. Technique didnt work? Try it again or another 100X until it does. The feedback of success/failure was much more immediate in other pursuits than it is in bonsai. And mistakes can't be immediately remedied with a new piece of wood or drilling a move again in bonsai. Instead, we have to wait to see how the tree responds and learn from our mistakes over a longer time period. Ruining a tree and simply pulling out another one to work on is just not something I can do in bonsai, whereas with woodworking I can just use a new piece of wood.

Patience is not my virtue, but after 49 years I have learned that my impetuousness doesn't always result in the outcome I want. Some things require a longer game. With bonsai, not only do I get to enjoy the trees and nature, but I am also training myself to recognize situations that cannot be addressed quickly with a sledgehammer - some things require a surgical approach over a long time.

 

[stewarjm192]

I am a kindred spirit. Whether it was jiu jitsu or guitar building, I consumed mass amounts of information and then went to practice. Technique didnt work? Try it again or another 100X until it does. The feedback of success/failure was much more immediate in other pursuits than it is in bonsai. And mistakes can't be immediately remedied with a new piece of wood or drilling a move again in bonsai. Instead, we have to wait to see how the tree responds and learn from our mistakes over a longer time period. Ruining a tree and simply pulling out another one to work on is just not something I can do in bonsai, whereas with woodworking I can just use a new piece of wood.

Patience is not my virtue, but after 49 years I have learned that my impetuousness doesn't always result in the outcome I want. Some things require a longer game. With bonsai, not only do I get to enjoy the trees and nature, but I am also training myself to recognize situations that cannot be addressed quickly with a sledgehammer - some things require a surgical approach over a long time.

guitars and bonsai, literally my life