Seed project

[Quince]

It's been a while since I started anything from seed, and I'm on a bit of a pine kick so I started collecting for next year. So far I have ripe cones from what I believe to be:
Bosnian pine, Mugo, a glaucus Scot's pine, and a green Scot's pine.
I'm trying to stick with species that are easily hardy in my zone 5b. The fun part of starting from seed, for me, is the chance of finding a diamond in the rough ( a specimen with special traits and no graft union) and working with a plant from the very begging. I would really like to work with seed from dwarf cultivars, but that has proven surprisingly difficult to source.

The question for my fellow Bnuts is, what would you plant if you were starting something today? Any projects that turned out really well?
I'm also wondering about Japanese white pine. Is it worth trying on its own roots.

...And, if anyone has cones or seed from a dwarf or compact specimen and would like to hook me up, that would be super! I could post pics and track them over time

 

[GGB]

I did JWP from seed and I'm glad I did, since I won't buy grafted trees. Bristelcone pine (P. aristata) has grown very quickly for me here, in zone 6. I've heard they make poor bonsai but with unique methods and clip and grow techniques (exactly the reason we grow from seed) I see potential

 

[jeanluc83]

Starting from seed is very enjoyable. I have a batch of pitch pine that are just ending their third summer. They have a l-o-n-g way to go but it has been fun.

Two pieces of advice I can offer: Plant far more than you would ever want to keep. Worst case you end up with more than you want. Second, keep them in full sun. Seedlings are extremely strong and do not need to be babied. Keeping them in full sun will give you stronger growth and fewer fungal problems.

 

[sorce]

Dwarfs come from those mutations you are seeking, and are always grafts, cuttings, or layers.

I don't know if seeds CAN exist for them.

But I'm sure you'll find your own mutation before finding seeds for others.

Sorce

 

[Quince]

Thanks for the feedback and advice.

I did JWP from seed and I'm glad I did, since I won't buy grafted trees.

Glad to hear that they are growing for you. I wonder if the people who have struggled we're in a warmer climate, or had higher expectations for marketable trees. If I can find some seed this autumn, I will probably try JWP.

Starting from seed is very enjoyable. I have a batch of pitch pine that are just ending their third summer. They have a l-o-n-g way to go but it has been fun.

Two pieces of advice I can offer: Plant far more than you would ever want to keep. Worst case you end up with more than you want. Second, keep them in full sun. Seedlings are extremely strong and do not need to be babied. Keeping them in full sun will give you stronger growth and fewer fungal problems.

I hear you. When I first started, I planted dozens of seeds. Today I have one Korean hornbeam and one JBP from that batch. It was a long process of attrition.
I have access to about 7 hours of direct sun. Wish it was more, but I gotta work with what I have.

 

[GGB]

Of course, free seeds are awesome but sheffields.com is an awesome resource too. They're very reputable, and their shipping just got cheaper

 

[jeanluc83]

I have used DA Tree Store in the past.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Also Schumachers seeds.

 

[Quince]

I checked out Sheffields, and I liked the selection and detailed info, but I ended up going with JLHudson for the price. They should be sending some: JWP, JRP, P. mugo mughus, and P. Pumila (Japanese Stone Pine).

I would like to get the white pines started right away with a warm stratification period, but I have never done that indoors and don't want to invite disease.

I'm learning that there is a big difference between collecting some cones and obtaining viable seed. Looked closer at seed from some of the cones that are opening up, and I'm finding a lot of empty shells. Now I'm sticking to trees with close neighbors for polination checking for the presence of male cones, and lowering my expectations.

 

[defra]

i ordered seeds from aliexpress lol
mosth of them grow

this one is a growing tree for my one year Old son
the label Said cypress pine

 

[augustine]

Julian Adams grows and sells Japanese white pine on their own roots. He recommends them and you can take Julian's word.

Go for it.

 

[Owen Reich]

Please grow as many Japanese white pines on their own roots from seed that you can. I wish they were as common as Scotts pine in America. I have a pound stratifying and many under 10yrs old.

I buy seedling Japanese white pine whenever I see them; branch and needle character is completely different from those grafted on black pine.

Not my tree, but I am responsible for it's care.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Please grow as many Japanese white pines on their own roots from seed that you can. I wish they were as common as Scotts pine in America. I have a pound stratifying and many under 10yrs old.

I buy seedling Japanese white pine whenever I see them; branch and needle character is completely different from those grafted on black pine.

Not my tree, but I am responsible for it's care.

Owen can you elaborate on the branch and needle character differences? Also, where do you get your Japanese white pine seed?

I've grown trident and black pine from seed. This year i'm trying ezo spruce(although fresh seed is difficult to find and forget about finding sachalin spruce), acer palmatum, and full moon acer palmatum. i was debating trying JWP again but fell flat when i tried before.

 

[jeanluc83]

Last year I collected some JWP seeds from a local tree. I was pretty bummed when the tree was cut down about a couple of months ago. I was hoping to collect more this year.

I stratified my seeds in the fridge. I was not all that scientific about it. I soaked them for about 48 hours then kept the sinkers in a bag with a damp paper towel in the fridge. Of the 8 or so that sank only 4 grew in the spring. I collected over 50 but most didn't sink. I should have planted the floaters too but didn't have the room and didn't take the time to find the room. Not the best success but still 4 JWP seedlings for free isn't bad.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I agree about grafted JWP. The only ones you can get here in Southern California are grafted on JBP roots. They look completely different. Instead of having soft, light green bundles of needles, the needles are heavier, longer, and larger. Sadly, I cannot keep JWP here in Southern California - they need a winter. In my opinion, Bristlecone Pine (which also needs a winter) has a similar appearance. It is also a five-needle pine with short soft needles.

Though I have tried both JWP and Bristlecone Pine here in OC, I have not been successful with either (on their own roots). I have been successful with JWP on JBP roots, but the tree looks completely different and nowhere near as nice - to say nothing of the almost impossible task of hiding the grafting scar because of the completely different nature of JWP and JBP bark.

This is photo of one of the nicest grafted JWP I have seen. I wish I had a better photo of the trunk and the branches. They used a slightly different technique than normal - they grafted JWP branches onto a JBP trunk (instead of being 100% graft). They then scarified the branches with a knife at the grafting location to get them to blend better with the trunk. You can still tell the difference between the bark on the branches and the bark on the trunk, but it is much less obvious than normal. I think this tree sold for $1750 ($3500 for two of them) back in 2011 at the GSBF Convention. I was standing there thinking about it when someone purchased both.

 

[Quince]

i ordered seeds from aliexpress lol
mosth of them grow

this one is a growing tree for my one year Old son
the label Said cypress pine
View attachment 121232

That's beautiful.

 

[Quince]

Julian Adams grows and sells Japanese white pine on their own roots. He recommends them and you can take Julian's word.

Go for it.

Cool. I just checked out his site and one of Juliens articles. Looks like a great resource.

 

[Quince]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Now I am really looking forward to experimenting with these 5-needle pines!

 

[JoeR]

Owen can you elaborate on the branch and needle character differences? Also, where do you get your Japanese white pine seed?

I've grown trident and black pine from seed. This year i'm trying ezo spruce(although fresh seed is difficult to find and forget about finding sachalin spruce), acer palmatum, and full moon acer palmatum. i was debating trying JWP again but fell flat when i tried before.

Sheffields sells both those types of spruce btw.... Not cheap though. I have 100 left still that I will be planting soon so they can cold stratify outside, I had a very low success rate using the refr. method. The ones that did grow were lost because of mt ignorance...

 

[Nybonsai12]

Thanks @JoeR
I did notice that sheffields has these. the EZO is 2015 crop and i bought some, but the sachalin is much older if i remember correctly, 2013 i think?