second chop in first year

Joe Dupre'

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This is my second year in the hobby and need some suggestions. I've collected several oaks and hawthorns this past spring. I chopped them to a foot or so high to insure the tree put out branches high enough for the design. Once the tree is up and growing with branches up and down the trunk, is it wise to give it a second chop that same year closer to the finished height?
 
No. Best to learn how to keep them alive and thriving for months and years. After a major yank out of the ground and loosing their top they need time to recover. Come spring post some pictures and we can talk about styling.
 
It depends!

Why just closer?
Why not to final?

If there is nothing or little growing above it, you only really have to worry about shaking it around with the saw.

But unless it must be addressed, because it is getting ugly somehow....

Best wait.

Sorce
 
Well, actually I meant to final height. I figured it may be best that the tree puts everything into the exact places you want to grow. My thinking is that this may cut out one growing season in the path to the final design. I'm sure some trees would just shake this procedure off as a minor set-back. Others may not. I have a suspicion that bald cypress and many elms would respond well to this. I have access to scores of bald cypress so I plan on experimenting with them this spring.

Thanks for the input.
 
The answer is - it all depends on the species.

But generally, when a tree is chopped, either while growing in the ground, or as it is being collected from ground growing. The back budding from the first chop is the strongest. Any subsequent chops will yield much less in the way of back budding. So for example, if I want branches on an Elm trunk to start at or below 4 inches, the first chop I would make would be at 4 inches. No second chop needed. If you were ''worried'' about an Elm's health, chopped to 12 inches, then later that summer or the next year chopped again to 4 inches, you may get significantly less back budding after that second chop. It is usually best to bring a tree down to the desired height in ONE CHOP, don't break it up into several steps.

With Oaks this is more important. (In my experience with Bur Oak) - they back bud very close to the chop, with almost nothing coming lower. Chop too high, and you will have to let the tree re-build vigor for a number of years only to then chop again at the height you wanted. Chop an Oak 2 years in a row, or twice in one season, and you may get - nothing - dead tree. Best to chop once.

There are exceptions, and they are species specific, but I can't think of one. A species that tends to die back from a cut, you make the cut higher than the final cut, but only high enough that where the die back stops is about where you wanted the final height to be.
 
My thinking is that this may cut out one growing season in the path to the final design.

Did you read Leo's thing?

I was talking to wireme the other day about how you can't speed this thing up, but, as newbs, we can do everything possible to not lose years, by making mistakes.

So....

I think your thinking is correct, but only NOW!
Had you made the first chop Low as low low, you wouldn't have made a mistake that needed to be fixed in the first place.

I view healing a chop as a lot of energy.
Energy I don't want to waste.

One straight chop for buds, and one clean-to cut when you have your new leader. So that energy gets to going where it needs to go.

You know what I realized, because I've done it before......

As soon as you contemplate making it faster, you already made a mistake.

Anyway...

Here's to no more mistakes!

Let's see some pics!

Sorce
 
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