Searching for Rough Cut Peat

[777thSunRay]

So I was advised by an expert keeper that peat, specifically rough cut peat, is an ideal substrate for germinating seedlings. I tried searching peat with the term 'rough cut', but nothing seems to come up with that term specifically. Does someone know what I'm referring to, like where to find rough cut peat, or a particular brand which is rough cut? Thanks in advance!

 

[0soyoung]

Orchid moss at Home Depot.

 

[777thSunRay]

Orchid moss at Home Depot.

Cool! Thanks so much

 

[777thSunRay]

Who's got a recommendation for a good deal on bulk? I'll be planting a lot of seeds
So far Sunshine brand at Home Depot is the best I've found... about $11 for 3 cu. ft

 

[Bonsai Nut]

It doesn't have to be the more expensive sphagnum moss (which is what peat is before it gets submerged in a bog). You are looking for 100% raw peat (straight from the bog) - not milled, not humus, not with added soil or fertilizers or chemicals. It should come as a large block - not as loose soil. This you will want to screen (with a large screen size) to break up, while removing large chunks or sticks. It may feel a little bit like you are grating cheese versus screening a soil component - but that's ok. The end product should be loose and almost fluffy, with no chunks. Depending on the product, if you have a lot of dust, you may want to screen it for dust/fines. I generally do not - if it is straight from the bog it should not be very dusty.

Good:
Notice in this image the block shape of the bag. Rough peat is literally a block of peat cut straight from the bog.



Not good:
Milled peat comes in a soil bag. The milling process makes the product very loose and dusty with lots of small particles - dirt versus moss pieces.


Peat Humus is a milled peat/humus blend.


Some milled peat moss contains extra fertilizers or chemicals:


Also there are some "me-too" products out there like "coconut peat" which I have never used. I have no idea what coconut peat is (since I don't see any coconut trees falling into bogs anywhere) but people make up all kinds of ^#$#@@!$ nowadays It's like an IPA lager. If you see one, assume the brewer doesn't know anything about beer

 

[penumbra]

This is an excellent run down on peat.
I prefer coconut peat, which is simply coconut chor (coir), over sphagnum peat. It has been discussed here before. It holds water but is not slimy like sphagnum peat can be. And it holds up very well for long time use. My seed beds that had a peat moss based mix in them are slimy and dense midway through a season and green with moss. My coco chor (coir) beds are still light and friable after 2 years now with no moss growing on the surface.
For almost all the seeds I start inside I use either long fibered sphagnum or coco chor mixed with perlite. I get damping off every time I use pure peat or a mix heavy in peat.

 

[Glaucus]

The texture&structure of coir is better than milled peat, imo. The main caveats are that coir can be high in salts (literally sea salt, which ought to be washed out but apparently that is not the case 100% of the time), and that it lacks fertilizer. Plants do not grow optimally in 100% coir.

It also has a higher pH than peat, which is not good if you grow acidophiles.

As for growing seedlings only able to grow in rough peat, what seedlings are you growing? I would say that the opposite is true. Seedlings do great in the finer structure. Especially after germination. Damping off/fungus is caused by humidity and heat, not the soil type. You may want unmilled peat to improve soil structure for mature plants. I don't really get why they mill down peat so finely, and then try to add in something else to improve soil structure& aeration. Not sure why unmilled or partially milled peat are not freely available on the consumer market.
For seedlings, a potting mix that is a bit lower in fertilizer usually works well as a starter mix.
A soilless mix can work very well, though. Likely, you are growing tree seeds. Here seedless is often a good way to go. But if you want to grow your bell pepper or tomato seeds, go cheap peat based potting mix. If you have like pines or maples or something, 33/33/33 peat, vermiculite/shredded sphagnum moss can work very well. Sharp sand may be added also. But make sure it is horticultural grade, cheap sharp sand could come from bricks that might have been recovered by breading down a chemical plant, for example. This type of soilless mix is also excellent for rooting cuttings.

I know a good Dutch brand now. But I can only buy it for the normal price if I buy a pellet of 52 bags. Or I can buy an individual bag for double the price.
The problem is that the only way to figure out the particle size of a potting mix is to buy a bag, then open it and see it for yourself. Unless you buy a literal block of unprocessed stuff like Bonsainut linked to.

 

[penumbra]

The texture&structure of coir is better than milled peat, imo. The main caveats are that coir can be high in salts (literally sea salt, which ought to be washed out but apparently that is not the case 100% of the time), and that it lacks fertilizer. Plants do not grow optimally in 100% coir.

It also has a higher pH than peat, which is not good if you grow acidophiles.

As for growing seedlings only able to grow in rough peat, what seedlings are you growing? I would say that the opposite is true. Seedlings do great in the finer structure. You may want unmilled peat to improve soil structure for mature plants. I don't really get why they mill down peat so finely, and then try to add in something else to improve soil structure& aeration. Not sure why unmilled or partially milled peat are not freely available on the consumer market.
For seedlings, a potting mix that is a bit lower in fertilizer usually works well as a starter mix.

I know a good Dutch brand now. But I can only buy it for the normal price if I buy a pellet of 52 bags. Or I can buy an individual bag for double the price.

I have heard / read this about salt in coco coir, but it has not been my experience with any I have used. I have used 4 brands, all off Amazon. Milled peat also lacks fertilizer. I have always used seeding mixes that have no fertilizer and only fertilize after a set or two of true leaves develop. Peat is acid and my coir is about neutral to very slightly alkaline.
I encourage anyone using any mix to experiment a bit. You will find what works for you and works for different situations.
One size does not fit all.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

My seed beds that had a peat moss based mix in them are slimy and dense midway through a season and green with moss.

Yes, I agree. I want to make sure people realize that rough peat is not for long-term use. I use it for germinating seeds when fresh and sifted. Within a couple of months it compacts, starts to break down, and turns back into a bog But by then I have taken my seedlings and moved them into a seedling blend that is 50% inorganic.

I was primarily using this product in Southern California where the water is alkaline, so the acidic nature of peat was beneficial. Since I've moved to North Carolina (with slightly acidic water) I have only used it for germinating citrus and persimmon so far. I didn't notice a difference, but I wasn't really paying close attention.

 

[Glaucus]

I have heard / read this about salt in coco coir, but it has not been my experience with any I have used. I have used 4 brands, all off Amazon. Milled peat also lacks fertilizer. I have always used seeding mixes that have no fertilizer and only fertilize after a set or two of true leaves develop. Peat is acid and my coir is about neutral to very slightly alkaline.
I encourage anyone using any mix to experiment a bit. You will find what works for you and works for different situations.
One size does not fit all.

Indeed, when I grew chili peppers in coir, they did fine. Only had good experiences, so not talking from my own one with the salt thing.
Seemed like a better product than milled peat based potting mixes.
But since the coir comes from coconut trees that are very near the coast, this thing about sea salt being inside this coir product has come up.
Could be that this only was the case when they first started selling coir as a horticulture product.

Very true that milled peat seed beds that are both moist and warm will grow a bunch of slimy stuff/algae and moss or liverworts.
Raw sphagnum moss will stay very clean for a long time under the same conditions.