Searching for cedar elm

[Pigskin Pete]

Cedar elms are one of the most common trees in my area. I've read they also do well as bonsai, back budding well and of course with beautiful rugged bark. Here is one article with pics as an example.

Best Bonsai Trees for Beginners – Cedar Elm | Bonsai South

bonsai-south.com

They weed in my backyard as trash trees and I have collected three seedlings to play with and steward along with some other seedlings I got from josteen using an arbor day code. Of course, these may not be anything worthwhile as bonsai for many, many years.

When you are searching for yamadori, yardadori, or whatever term you like, but don't own your own acreage to hunt, what do you do? I have one friend who owns some rural acreage and I may ask him if I can scout his property for suitable stumps. Of course, i am just one giy with a shovel. Is that realistic? Other ideas for sourcing?

Also, when you decide you are in the market for a particular type of tree, how do you go about finding a market/sellers for it, and how do you educate yourself on being a good buyer who pays a fair price?

 

[ERClover]

I have actually had luck poking around on Craig’s List. I was looking for a Virginia Pine and I just looked in my city under trees and a guy was selling 2-3 year old trees of various species in 3 gallon pots for $20. Found exactly what I was looking for and maybe even more I may go back for.

 

[rockm]

I have two cedar elm. Both collected in Texas. Have had one for almost 30 years.

A couple of things:
How to collect
selling collected trees

Cedar elm are extremely good bonsai material and extremely easy to collect (in the right season). I used to have acreage over near Lake Palestine. Cedar elm were the most common species next to the various oak species. CE grew in thickets. I've dug seedlings to trunks as thick as my calf. All lived. Shovels can help, but a good cordless reciprocating saw with a pruning blade is the way to collect them.

They can take a lot of abuse. Dig them ALL AT ONC BEFORE BUD BREAK IN THE SPRING...That's usually around early to mid-Feb. in Central and East Texas. Dig after leaf buds open (even a little) and survival rates drop steeply.

It's important to make an effort to find trunks with some interest--"movement" in the trunk low down, decent nebari--although CE most always have pretty bad nebari. Do not trunk chop and let it sit for a year or two. That will weaken and kill the tree. Been there done that. Leaving in position takes away whatever advantage the tree had in competition with it neighbors. It will be overshadowed by the growth other trees push in the absence of its trunk.

Since CE is an elm, it can take drastic treatment. You won't need much feeder root and you bare root on collection. I'd start with a trunk about an inch to two to begin getting experience Best way to collect them is to measure about six inches out from the main trunk (with large trees 4-9" diameter trunks), and start sawing roots all the way around the tree (Do not top it at this point). I use only a "pull" pruning saw and a hand trowel to dig up trees. Shovels are mostly useless. A reciprocating battery operated sawzall or equivalent makes this easy and almost effortless (bring replacement blades). Bring that six inch circle in to two or three with smaller trunks.

Keep sawing roots as you move soil away from them to a depth of about six to eight inches. Try to keep some feeder roots if you can, but it's not really all that necessary. Once you can move the trunk up on one side, start working to sever the heavier tap roots under the tree. That can be a lot of work if you don't have assistance in holding the trunk up. You can use the trunk for leverage (which is why you don't top it until after you've finished with the roots).

Once the roots are mostly finished and you don't require all that leverage from the trunk, sever it AT LEAST SIX INCHES ABOVE where you see the final design. That extra space will allow for more apical buds and the resulting choices for an apical branch down the road. SEAL ALL TRUNK CUTS. Leave root cuts exposed making sure the cuts face downward.

With that you can take the tree home. Once there, take a hose to the root mass. Wash off ALL the old field soil. Have a container at the ready that can accommodate the root mass (you can shorten roots that need it at this time with no issues). WIRE THE TREE INTO THE CONTAINER. This is a critical step, as newly collected trees can be very unstable for a long time as their roots regenerate. Any movement in the coming months, can rub new roots off and complicate recovery. That happens underneath the bonsai soil, so don't think the soil you're dumping on it will keep it stable.

Back fill the container with regular bonsai soil. Work it into the root mass (there probably isn't going to be much of one anyway, more likely mostly roots stubs, but there could be a few smaller feeder roots in there as well). Submerge the filled pot into a tub of water (regular water, skip the Superthrive or whatever snake oil you're contemplating adding to it to "stimulate" roots. More than likely, whatever you're adding can suppress root growth. Cedar elm do not need anything to recover). Wait until the bubbles stop rising from the water and the soil is saturated. Lift it out and Set the pot up off the ground to avoid rainwater splashing into it and in a place that's out of the sun. Keep the soil moist (not soggy). Don't fuss with it.

You should see new growth in a couple of weeks. It will show up as small green knobs in cracks between bark plates. Those will eventually push into new shoots (reddish in color at first, then green). This doesn't necessarily mean the tree is going to make it however. Older cedar elms can push new growth from reserves and momentum, only to flag or fail after they push shoots with three or four leaves. Typically they will "pause" after that initial push and seem to wait a couple of weeks until they start growing again. That second flush can signify they've got substantial roots under them.

SECOND POINT--Selling what you find is down the road for you. It takes time to get the collection thing down. Sell trees before you get that experience and what you sell dies in the hands of people who buy from you. If you have access to land with CE, get out there next spring (it's far too late to dig them now) and get a few. See if you can get them to live a year. Dig various sizes.(You will find however, that trunks in the 2-4 inch diameter range are easier to ship and will popular with buyers). Larger trunks with some decent movement in the first 6-12 inches, up to 24-36 inches could be priced up to $500 or even more if they have the initial traits (good nebari, trunk movement or even the beginnings of braching). Smaller trunks can have some of that too and should be priced accordingly. Straight trunks with no movement aren't as pricey. A 2 inch straight trunk might be $75-$300 depending on features.

The cedar elm below was one Zach Smith of Bonsai South collected off of my property about six years ago. It's what you start out with. I haven't got a recent pic of it but I've grown out the apex and am beginning to build branching on it. It was about $200, since it has some "wiggle" in the lower trunk.

 

[rockm]

Here's an old pic of my big CE. It was collected near Austin in the 90's. Still working on it. It's about four feet tall. Trunk is about as thick as my wrist or a little bigger. All branching was regrown (and repeatedly thinned) over the last 25 years.

 

[Michael P]

This is a cedar elm I collected in 2000 from a ranch in Grayson County, Texas. Photo was taken last year in late November. The tree originally had two trunks, a straight one and a slightly curving one. In a workshop, Nick Lenz said "Cut off that ulgy straight one!"

 

[rockm]

Also, FWIW, the cedar elms that spring up volunteer in the yard may not be CE, but just look like them. My sister in law in Dallas complained about being swamped with seedling Cedar elm. Dug up one of those seedlings and sent it to me. It wasn't CE. It was Southern Hackberry (Celtis Laevigata), also called "Sugarberry" because of the small drupe fruit it makes. The leaves and growth pattern are very similar to CE. Hackberry is pretty prolific in that area. It's a weed tree. The seedling sent to me was collected from a rain gutter on a house.

The veining on leaves are different and the texture on CE leaves is like sandpaper or a cat's tongue. Hackberry is smooth.

 

[rockm]

FWIW, This article is pretty informative on what to expect--I accompanied Zach and watched his collection techniques. The description is pretty much the bible for me on how to collect smaller trees successfully:

The Wonderful Cedar Elm, And A Lesson On How To Gauge Success | Bonsai South

bonsai-south.com

 

[Pigskin Pete]

Yes, hackberry trees abound here as well. My neighbor has a cedar elm, a pecan tree, and a hackberry tree, all of which loom over one side of my backyard....I mow lots of seedlings and get catkins everywhere.

 

[CreekChalk]

Cedar elms are one of the most common trees in my area. I've read they also do well as bonsai, back budding well and of course with beautiful rugged bark. Here is one article with pics as an example.

Best Bonsai Trees for Beginners – Cedar Elm | Bonsai South

bonsai-south.com

They weed in my backyard as trash trees and I have collected three seedlings to play with and steward along with some other seedlings I got from josteen using an arbor day code. Of course, these may not be anything worthwhile as bonsai for many, many years.

When you are searching for yamadori, yardadori, or whatever term you like, but don't own your own acreage to hunt, what do you do? I have one friend who owns some rural acreage and I may ask him if I can scout his property for suitable stumps. Of course, i am just one giy with a shovel. Is that realistic? Other ideas for sourcing?

Also, when you decide you are in the market for a particular type of tree, how do you go about finding a market/sellers for it, and how do you educate yourself on being a good buyer who pays a fair price?

Rockm covered collection via digging, another option is air layering, CE respond well and smaller branches and be separated and potted in as little as 6 weeks.

Herons Bonsai on YouTube has great air layering explanations and tutorials if you’re unfamiliar with the technique.