Satsuki root rot?

[GeorgeMas]

Hi everyone,
I am pretty new to bonsai, so I figured you pros can help me out. I have an agriculture and plant biology background so it is pretty humbling for me to do this but I figured there are people that specialize in satsuki! I had this small plant from a certified nursery and it flourished from March to now. I kept it indoors on a large south-facing window (open most of the warmth months) in the Netherlands. It was watered only with distilled water and i fertilized every week with dilluted 3.8-1.8-2.5 fertilizer for a month in summer. The problem appeared with the beginning of winter but also combined with a fungus gnat infestation that i recently treated with steinenerma. When the symptoms where still early i had to repot it because my old pot just cracked. My question is do you think its salvageable and what is it? Root rot? Fungus gnat larvae? If its root rot what fungus would that be for azaleas? Also should i buy a humidifier for the winter? Unfortunately i have no access to a garden or balcony.

 

[Glaucus]

It probably needs more light, but I am not sure this is why you are seeing problems. My guess is also that it needs more water, not less. The tips of the leaves turn brown, which suggests to me it is some water/hydration related issue.
With 3.8-1.8-2.5, you mean the fertilizer is an organic fertilizer, right? Brown tips can mean fertilizer burn, but almost always that is with chemical fertilizer, creating a high EC value inside the root ball, drawing water molecules out of the plant.

I can grow azaleas inside for a few months. But then it becomes challenging. They grow too fast, the growth is very tender, and bugs are always a problem. Gnats, but also mites. So for sure get a jewellers loop and also check the underside of the leaves.
Insects can grow very rapidly indoors, they have no natural predators or dispersion.
Growing indoors is hard mode for sure, but with a satsuki azalea it should be possible for at least a few years. It seems azaleas can thrive without winter dormancy, unlike say maples.

 

[GeorgeMas]

Thank you for replying!
I am actually using an inorganic fertilizer (supposedly for indoor plants) from Pokon, but then again the symptoms appeared much later than the application. The EC of the fertilizer is 150mS/m and the pH 13 and of course thats when it is undilluted.
There are no insects on the leaves. My only concern is that new growth also showed signs of browning...

 

[rockm]

It should be outside. You’re killing by keeping it inside. Distilled water isn’t great as it is neutral in ph and minerals. Azaleas prefer acidic conditions. The bugs and fungus are symptoms of weakness probably brought on by being kept indoors in low light with little air circulation. You’re probably watering it too much as well (if misting it- stop). Overwater is the most common beginner mistake.

 

[Glaucus]

Yes, it should be outside. But the OP said he had no garden or balcony, so unless you hang it from a net through a closed window or something (is that actually a thing?), that seems not to be an option.

I find it challenging to grow satsuki indoors. But not as challenging as I had thought before.
Not sure what Pokon you are using, but I agree that it seems you used sufficiently dilute dosage. But if you have problems, and the problem isn't chlorosis, and tips dry up, fertilizer is still on the table.
There are bugs too small to see with the naked eye. Hence the loop suggestion. Since you grow them indoors, you need to preventatively check for pests using a loop.

In my experience, with the dry air indoors, the azaleas consume water rather quickly. And them being too wet is unlikely to be an issue. But the temperature, the lack of UV, the stale air, it all makes fungus much worse.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Yes, it should be outside. But the OP said he had no garden or balcony, so unless you hang it from a net through a closed window or something (is that actually a thing?), that seems not to be an option.

I find it challenging to grow satsuki indoors. But not as challenging as I had thought before.
Not sure what Pokon you are using, but I agree that it seems you used sufficiently dilute dosage. But if you have problems, and the problem isn't chlorosis, and tips dry up, fertilizer is still on the table.
There are bugs too small to see with the naked eye. Hence the loop suggestion. Since you grow them indoors, you need to preventatively check for pests using a loop.

In my experience, with the dry air indoors, the azaleas consume water rather quickly. And them being too wet is unlikely to be an issue. But the temperature, the lack of UV, the stale air, it all makes fungus much worse.

I'm all for choosing material that doesn't stack the deck against me. There are species that can do better inside. That's where I would go for the poster. I wouldn't give up. But research proper care for tropical. Then add some you can grow with. I wouldn't hold my breathe and put my last hope in a sick and declining tree. That thrives outdoors. I would look to see what I could do...for my situation. Then see it done.

Beginner's mistake isn't a mistake. If they venture in and like the hobby.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I've kept azalea indoors for three years. It dried out a couple times and bounced back.
But after the fourth time it didn't.

If you can give it rain water, please do so. And use a wooden chopstick to probe the soil for moisture; stick is wet, don't water. Stick is damp, water if you want. Stick is dry, you should have watered yesterday.

The EC of the fertilizer is 150mS/m and the pH 13 and of course thats when it is undilluted.

Undiluted fertilizer can give you readings that don't make sense because of the high salt content, even the conductivity will be off due to the low amount of water. Most of Pokon nutrients balance out at around 5.5 in water without any adjustments.
A drop or two of pH down (nitric, citric or sulfuric acid) that you could find in most cannabis grow shop websites can help you set it to around 4.5 which is perfect for azaleas.

 

[rockm]

Yes, it should be outside. But the OP said he had no garden or balcony, so unless you hang it from a net through a closed window or something (is that actually a thing?), that seems not to be an option.

I find it challenging to grow satsuki indoors. But not as challenging as I had thought before.
Not sure what Pokon you are using, but I agree that it seems you used sufficiently dilute dosage. But if you have problems, and the problem isn't chlorosis, and tips dry up, fertilizer is still on the table.
There are bugs too small to see with the naked eye. Hence the loop suggestion. Since you grow them indoors, you need to preventatively check for pests using a loop.

In my experience, with the dry air indoors, the azaleas consume water rather quickly. And them being too wet is unlikely to be an issue. But the temperature, the lack of UV, the stale air, it all makes fungus much worse.

That’s kind of the point I was making. If you don’t have space outside, this species is a dead end indoors. The one posted here is reaching the cul de sac.

 

[GeorgeMas]

Thank you all for the replies, I really appreciate you all! As I have previously mentioned i work in a plant biology lab. I am only saying this to explain that I have a basic understanding of plants, fertillizers, diseases and pests. I am watering with demineralized water as this is what we also use on the lab and plants thrive that way, unfortunately no balcony means no rainwater collector. I also dont know of any special 'acidic water' if it exists. Nevertheless, the south-facing window I am talking about is pretty large (5x2m) so I am pretty sure she gets the maximum sunlight for my latitude. I make sure to keep windows open at times but not too long as temperatures drop below 10C.

I did make an educated decision to keep the azalea tree indoors (although not optimal) because I liked the way it looks and my background made me a bit cocky I guess. I will move next year so I didn't think it would be a problem. Unfortunately, I cant pinpoint when symptoms appeared as I was really busy with work at the time. I will take your advice of dropping the substrate pH, not with citric acid though cause thats basically a squeezed lemon

The pictures are from the beginning of april when i first purchased it and in August. Because you asked about the window it is as it looks with 2 opening windows in each side, so basically kind of a greenhouse simulator if there is anything i can do to save it please let me know!

 

[Glaucus]

It is inside during a winter on a very northerly latitude for satsuki already. It should be in Italy during a cool summer, getting plenty of direct sunlight during the morning. But it is actually experiencing a winter in the Netherlands, where it gets dark at 5pm, but also behind a window.
Yes, quite a large window. But the first step is to get a grow light. Because if the light is not optimal, everything else is already more difficult. Just the days being supershort as they are right now means it gets less energy. It wants to be dormant with those DLIs.

 

[GeorgeMas]

It is inside during a winter on a very northerly latitude for satsuki already. It should be in Italy during a cool summer, getting plenty of direct sunlight during the morning. But it is actually experiencing a winter in the Netherlands, where it gets dark at 5pm, but also behind a window.
Yes, quite a large window. But the first step is to get a grow light. Because if the light is not optimal, everything else is already more difficult. Just the days being supershort as they are right now means it gets less energy. It wants to be dormant with those DLIs.

That is very true. I do have a growlight for some other indoor plants on another spot in the house. I'll immediately put it to use. The plan is to eventually take it with me back to Greece and grow old with it. But that seems like not so viable anymore. Lets see. It does have new green sprouts all over so I would say its not fully gone yet, in my experience plants are amazingly resilient.

I purchased it from a popular nursery (Lodder Bonsai) where they had hundreds of young satsukis so I am really curious how people grow them here...

 

[Paradox]

Honestly the only way to save it is to give it the conditions it needs, which is to not be indoors.

 

[GeorgeMas]

Honestly the only way to save it is to give it the conditions it needs, which is to not be indoors.

It is budding... It didnt flower in spring or summer. So even if I move it outdoors now somehow wouldn't 10C day / 0C night temperatures make things even worse?

 

[Paradox]

It is budding... It didnt flower in spring or summer. So even if I move it outdoors now somehow wouldn't 10C day / 0C night temperatures make things even worse?

No you cant move it outside now because it isnt dormant. I know you dont have access to any outside space, but the outlook isnt good for this plant indoors...
If you really like azaleas, Id suggest you look into what they call florist azaleas.
These are not satsuki azlaeas, but another species that is not frost hardy and can be grown inside.

The Florist's Azalea: How to Grow It as a Houseplant

Regularly offered as a gift plant, especially during the winter season, the florist’s azalea (Rhododendron simsii) also makes an excellent indoorContinue Reading

laidbackgardener.blog

Azaleas indoors / RHS

The many cultivars of <em>Rhododendron simsii</em> (often called <em>Rhododendron indicum</em>) are popular pot plants which are brought on, or ‘forced’, in warm, humid conditions for sale at Christmas.

www.rhs.org.uk

 

[Glaucus]

A florist azalea/Belgian indica wouldn't be easier or harder to grow indoors than a satsuki or a kurume. Florists azaleas are meant to be bought in winter while in flower. And to be thrown away several weeks later when they are finished blooming. It is not like it is currently freezing outdoors and you can't move it, if that were an option.

The weather is mild currently so it should have some time to go dormant. But you need to guard against frost until it has had a couple of weeks to go dormant and you have checked the signs of dormancy.
While dormant, it wouldn't be able to recover whatever health issue it has suffered, until spring comes.

I know I have a soil mixture that works well with my tap water, plus a fertilizer regime, all tested outdoors. So when I do grow them briefly indoors, I do not need to think about distilled water or if I fertilize too much.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

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.…have a couple things to add that stuck out to add to the suggestions above.

1. Would switch to rain water vs demineralized water. Most rainwater has a slight acidic pH and the azalea can use those minerals. Don’t see any advantage in creating a lab situation as helpful..

2. Dial back the fertilizer to once every month max during the growing season. Even organic can be harmful at this frequency… for a number of reasons starting with balance of water and O2

In addition, Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!! it’s almost over here. Dove with the Mantas, Bumphead Parrotfish and Sharks all day. Interestingly enough, Thanksgiving is indeed celebrated in the Federated States of Micronesia. They even imported turkey nd all the trimmings for dinner at the dive resort restaurant! It was great!

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