Road-trip = New JBP and Juniper

[Godschick]

A little road trip lead me to two new additions to my balcony collection. I said I wasn’t going to buy anymore until I got through my first Fresno, California summer and had time to learn more, but … Not great with self control when it comes to bonsai obviously.

From what I understand the JBP decandling starts happening soon and I’m wondering if this one is ready to decandle or should I wait until the fall or next June? And when I prune, should I cut all of the green on the tips? If I do that it seems a bit drastic and there won’t be much left but then again being new to this I may be a bit too conservative.

Also obviously I want to bulk up the nebari/trunk of both. The JBP has a couple sacrifice branches on the bottom that I’m going to leave. Any suggestions for both of these on bulking up the trunk/nebari?

I have looked up a few things and I find a little bit of contradictory information, so I thought I would toss these questions out here for you guys to give some feedback. And share the pics of the new trees!

Thank you

 

[misfit11]

You increase trunk diameter by letting it grow. Unfortunately, they aren't going to bulk up in those small pots (not in our lifetime anyway). You'd need to put them into larger containers or even the ground. Many people use Anderson Flats (search for them online) to grow out their trees, they're great. You can also build your own grow boxes. Although you don't want to disturb the roots at this time of year, you can put them into these larger containers (or the ground) so long as you don't mess with the rootball. Make sure you use well-draining soil to prevent root rot (No potting soil!)

Also, you're wanting to increase the diameter of the trunks but you probably don't want to get the branches out of proportion. In order to do this, you grow a sacrifice branch (or branches). Allow a branch or two to grow unchecked for a few years. Those lowest branches in the pine would be great for sacrifices. At the same time you are pruning the other branches for shape, to keep them in proportion, develop taper etc.

Hope that helps

 

[Godschick]

You increase trunk diameter by letting it grow. Unfortunately, they aren't going to bulk up in those small pots (not in our lifetime anyway). You'd need to put them into larger containers or even the ground. Many people use Anderson Flats (search for them online) to grow out their trees, they're great. You can also build your own grow boxes. Although you don't want to disturb the roots at this time of year, you can put them into these larger containers (or the ground) so long as you don't mess with the rootball. Make sure you use well-draining soil to prevent root rot (No potting soil!)

Also, you're wanting to increase the diameter of the trunks but you probably don't want to get the branches out of proportion. In order to do this, you grow a sacrifice branch (or branches). Allow a branch or two to grow unchecked for a few years. Those lowest branches in the pine would be great for sacrifices. At the same time you are pruning the other branches for shape, to keep them in proportion, develop taper etc.

Hope that helps

Thanks, it did help. I appreciate your direction. I’ll look up those flats for a repot next spring. Do you think I should remove the candles now or later ?

 

[sorce]

Doesn't look like waiting will do much damage to design options.

Especially if a new/larger pot is on the horizon, best to keep em full to ensure new roots after Repot.

These are pretty sweet, I like how they kinda match!

Sorce

 

[misfit11]

We typically do candle cutting here in CA around mid June so yes within the next couple weeks. Like I said with the sacrifices, though, leave a couple candles. I'd probably let the leader grow and also one of those low on the trunk. The leader will grow strong and thicken the entire trunk. The lower sacrifice will add taper and develop the base.

After a few years of allowing these to grow and thicken you'll need to cut one (most likely the leader) because they'll start stealing the energy from the other candles and branches. Pines are all about balancing energy.

 

[Japonicus]

I want to bulk up the nebari/trunk of both

For the pine, allow the apex to go untouched for years while training the tree below.
There's some threads on here about Anderson flats and where to source them.
Nice trees you brought home Best of luck with them.

 

[Shibui]

Both very nice trunks. Whoever developed those knows what they are doing and your choices appear to be better than most newbies.

As mentioned, growth is the key to trunk diameter increase and root run is the key to increasing growth.
I get good results with junipers by allowing sacrifice branches to grow. Sometimes for 6-8 years and up to 3 or 4 feet long. How long will depend on your expectations for the trunk, how it grows, etc. Sacrifice branches that get large can be converted to jin in which case it does not matter how thick they get. I've also taken to wiring some bends into sacrifice branches so the resulting jins will match the trunk better if I decide to make longer jins.

Pines grow differently.
Decandling is the cool technique that gets lots of press but it is best used for maintenance of will developed trees or at the very end of growth stage to get good ramification in developing branches.
In the earlier stages of trunk increase grow and chop, coupled with strategic sacrifice branches is better as those techniques allow growth to help with thickening.

Hard to tell where your pine is up to but some of the lower branches might be close to using decandling to develop better ramification.

 

[Godschick]

These are pretty sweet, I like how they kinda match!

Cool, thanks! They do and I didn’t even notice it until you just said something. I guess I’m consistent in what I like. When I actually looked inside the juniper the trunk was even more cool. I can’t wait until the next few years to do a little more on them and see how they turn out.

 

[Godschick]

For the pine, allow the apex to go untouched for years while training the tree below.
There's some threads on here about Anderson flats and where to source them.
Nice trees you brought home Best of luck with them.

Yes, the apex! Thanks for the reminder and direction on that and more on the Anderson flats. Also for the vote of confidence on the trees. I was a little bit worried in searching for a couple good ones

 

[Godschick]

Both very nice trunks. Whoever developed those knows what they are doing and your choices appear to be better than most newbies.

As mentioned, growth is the key to trunk diameter increase and root run is the key to increasing growth.
I get good results with junipers by allowing sacrifice branches to grow. Sometimes for 6-8 years and up to 3 or 4 feet long. How long will depend on your expectations for the trunk, how it grows, etc. Sacrifice branches that get large can be converted to jin in which case it does not matter how thick they get. I've also taken to wiring some bends into sacrifice branches so the resulting jins will match the trunk better if I decide to make longer jins.

Pines grow differently.
Decandling is the cool technique that gets lots of press but it is best used for maintenance of will developed trees or at the very end of growth stage to get good ramification in developing branches.
In the earlier stages of trunk increase grow and chop, coupled with strategic sacrifice branches is better as those techniques allow growth to help with thickening.

Hard to tell where your pine is up to but some of the lower branches might be close to using decandling to develop better ramification.

Thank you for such good and detailed feedback. There are two small lower sacrifice branches I am glad are there and I’m going to let develop over the next few years at least. I specifically looked for those when choosing that one. I am excited to see these two trees develop. I have been apprehensive to buy much due to just learning and lacking a good eye, so thank you for your encouragement on my selection as a newbie. Very positive! Appreciate you.

 

[Japonicus]

Yes, the apex! Thanks for the reminder and direction on that and more on the Anderson flats. Also for the vote of confidence on the trees. I was a little bit worried in searching for a couple good ones

Yeh it looks stupid silly with a towering crane when the apex is allowed to shoot up several feet
but that's the key to girth, which can't happen with confined roots really.

StackPath

I ordered a variety of Anderson flats and...

This is probably just a "well duh" kind of thing, but I was curious so figured others might be curious as well. After seeing @Bonsai Nut mention it, I went on the Stuewe website and placed an order for a few each of three different Anderson part numbers: 2400B Heavy Duty (Stuewe #AFLAT3), 2405B...

www.bonsainut.com

I've never used an Anderson flat, but have a couple of the pond baskets going.
I like the idea of the flat better.

Your shimpaku needs the moss tooth brushed and tweezed from the trunk.
A light brushing (no overspray flicking) of 5% vinegar, common household white vinegar
will kill moss if it gets to be a nuisance on the trunk where it can rot the bark.

 

[Paradox]

Not a bad haul for a beginner, good picks

 

[Godschick]

Not a bad haul for a beginner, good picks

Thanks ! With over 15 acres of material to choose from I was a bit intimidated, so good to hear!