Research hasn't answered this deadwood question...

[Bonsaimancer]

Hello,

Long time lurker on this wonderful forum, but 1st question. I am the type of person who does copious online research and searches previous threads before ever asking questions, but I cannot answer this: does a tree with a completely deadwood trunk & limbs grow larger? I ask because I collected this yamadori from an area where all the trees--some big and some small--look like the pictures. thousands and thousands of these trees on a cliff with brutal winds--trees all smashed flat to the ground by the wind, ash (from fires) in the soil, but all living with green needles. This was in Eastern Washington near the Gorge area. Also, does anybody know what species this might be? Thank you in advance!

--Richard

 

[BobbyLane]

Hello,

Long time lurker on this wonderful forum, but 1st question. I am the type of person who does copious online research and searches previous threads before ever asking questions, but I cannot answer this: does a tree with a completely deadwood trunk & limbs grow larger? I ask because I collected this yamadori from an area where all the trees--some big and some small--look like the pictures. thousands and thousands of these trees on a cliff with brutal winds--trees all smashed flat to the ground by the wind, ash (from fires) in the soil, but all living with green needles. This was in Eastern Washington near the Gorge area. Also, does anybody know what species this might be? Thank you in advance!

--Richard

simple. the live area grows and produces callus around deadwood, the dead wood doesnt grow because its dead.

 

[Bonsaimancer]

simple. the live area grows and produces callus around deadwood, the dead wood doesnt grow because its dead.

I know the actual dead wood (being dead and all) doesn't grow but does the tree its self grow larger? As you can see these trees look like ALL their wood is dead, but they are still growing needles and living. I feel like they have to get larger because some of these trees out there were 4 & 5 feet tall with completely wind-battered, split trunks and branches, but with green needles. Also, this was just potted last night to get roots in soil and stabilize it. I haven't done any cleaning or trimming of this guy yet.

 

[BobbyLane]

I know the actual dead wood (being dead and all) doesn't grow but does the tree its self grow larger? As you can see these trees look like ALL their wood is dead, but they are still growing needles and living. I feel like they have to get larger because some of these trees out there were 4 & 5 feet tall with completely wind-battered, split trunks and branches, but with green needles. Also, this was just potted last night to get roots in soil and stabilize it. I haven't done any cleaning or trimming of this guy yet.

on some trees that have significant dead areas it will just be the live veins that are fattening up.

 

[Dav4]

on some trees that have significant dead areas it will just be the live veins that are fattening up.

There has to be a live vein running along the trunk from canopy to roots. A few examples... the living cambium that supports the foliage continues to grow and thicken, year after year.

 

[Shibui]

Definitely has to be some live bark for nutrients and water to circulate from roots to leaves and back.
A tree with substantial dead wood will still grow both thicker and longer. The live parts are still live and grow like any other live part. In situ the environmental conditions that caused the dead wood are still likely to be present which does tend to reduce growth rates substantially.
Sometimes there is little difference between the color and texture of live/dead areas so it is harder to pick which areas are still living.

Not sure what species that first example is.

 

[Mike Westervelt]

It's a sage brush, and I think what you are calling deadwood is actually shaggy bark.

 

[BrightsideB]

Brush sage looks like

 

[sorce]

Scooby Bark!

Welcome to Crazy!

As the live grows the dead can get smaller.

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

It's a sage brush, and I think what you are calling deadwood is actually shaggy bark.

exactly what I was thinking. The close up of the trunk shows bark all around, so, although it COULD be there are dead areas below the bark, there is no way to tell what is alive or dead from that picture.

 

[Bonsaimancer]

Thank you, everyone! Now being able to know and research the fact that it is Sage shows that the appearance is consistent with this species. So I guess the bark is not deadwood, but wind battered shaggy bark. I think I will try to lime the top half of the trunk then use wood hardener on the trunk to make it stronger and less 'shreddy'...what do you think?

 

[leatherback]

I think I will try to lime the top half of the trunk then use wood hardener on the trunk to make it stronger and less 'shreddy'...what do you think?

I see no good reason to do this.

FIRST find out which part of the bark is alive and which is dead.
Clean the bark from the dead segments. Be carefull, more might be alive than you think.

The parts that are dead, treat with limesulfur.

Wood hardener really only have a place on aged deadwood that is at risk of fast decay

 

[erich_raudebaugh]

You can treat sagebrush with lime sulphur, but it doesn't even seem to need it. The deadwood is hard to tell from live veins, they look almost the same. Scratching them will let you tell the difference.

 

[Enfield Snapper]

I grew up with these. The shredded shaggy bark of sagebrush is normal. I personally would leave it exactly as it is, because you really won't find one without it. It's not really a tree - they max out at about 10 feet with good watering. In that case they tend to grow more upright. But in their more typical environment water is sparse, they grow slowly, and they take on a lot more curves. I hope you were able to get lots of feeder roots.