Repotting and half bare rooting pines

maroun.c

Omono
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Been reading on above topic extensively and so far the general guidelines are as follows for pines or conifers in nursery soil:
- repot take down 20-40. percent of the lower part of the soil
-can take out up to 20 percent of circular roots
-some mixed input on taking out one side of the soil and replacing by bonsai soil.
Or working on the upper layer with still nursery soil.
-mixed advice on yearly work on different parts of the soil on yearly or once every 3 years basis.
- overall agreement on never full bare rooting unless necessary and keeping in mind the high risk of killing the tree.

I still don't understand the followings,
-When taking out the lower part on first repot:
Till the next or maybe 2-3 repots where u have the full soil replaced with bonsai soil, how do u manage watering where bonsai soil will require daily watering at least and where as nursery soil can stay wet for 3 days.
- 2nd repot where u work on upper roots, u might also affect the lower roots already in bonsai soil be it by working on the upper upper part of the roots or when u take the tree out of the pot where the lower more lose bonsai soil might simply detach from the roots ( basically close to a full bare root)
Appreciate any guidance on the steps to move a conifer from nursery soil to bonsai soil with reasonable risk.
Thanks
 
You can't rely on percentages really.

If you cut 1% of circling roots and it contained 90% of your feeder roots at the end of it........dead.

Care mostly for that core. That shin. That beating heart.

Different soil can be managed by keeping the whole thing well flushed when watering.
Water more for longer durations.
This'll keep what causes root rot flushed away.

Sorce
 
The HBR process was popularized by Boon. Boon Mix soil works very well for bonsai, but transitioning from traditional nursery soil to Boon Mix can lead to problems if not done correctly.

All that BS about the core, and it being the “heartbeat” of the tree is just that, BS. There are usually thick roots there with no feeders. How can that be the “heartbeat”?

Roots serve two purposes for a tree. One, they affix the tree into the soil. “Tap roots” hold the tree in place and support the tree and keep it from being blown over. We don’t need tap roots for bonsai because we tie the trees into the pits using wire. The tree should be tied in very securely, no wiggle at all. A tree that wiggles in the pot will have a difficult time growing new feeder roots as they are extremely tiny and fragile. Wiggle the tree in the soil, and you damage the new feeder roots.

The second purpose of the roots is to take up water and nutrients. This is done by the feeder roots. The mire feeder roots you have, the better the tree can absorb water and nutrients. A solid “shin” with all heavy roots, or compacted soil is just taking up valuable space in the pot that could be filled with feeder roots! You might as well bury a rock in there for all the good it does.

So, an ideal root ball is one that has a radial surface root system which break up into multiple smaller roots which in turn exploded into a mass of fibrous roots with feeders. An open, granular, well draining soil allows for oxygen and water to reach the roots. Every time the tree is watered, as the water passes down thru the soil, air is pulled down into the soil, pulling in oxygen to the roots.

Root rot occurs where anaerobic bacteria and fungus take over. Those live in the absence of oxygen. That means if your soil pulls in air, and oxygen, you won’t get root rot. A solid “shin” that is hard to get fresh water and air into is far more likely to develop root rot because of the lack of oxygen.

So... how do we transition to use a good inorganic bonsai Mix such as Boon Mix?

First off, let’s perform this procedure in the late winter/early spring when most trees will begin emerging from winter dormancy.

Let’s assume we are starting with a typical nursery can. They are usually deeper than a bonsai pot. It’s usually safe to simply saw the bottom half of the existing root ball off entirely. Then reduce the remaining rootball by removing any and all circling roots. All circling roots!

Inspect the bottom of the rootball. Identify the large “tap” roots growing staring down. Use a chop stick to probe around them and dig out the soil around them so you can see if there are any branchlets up higher closer to the trunk. Try to cut the heavy tap roots off shorter if you can.

Using a 3 pronged root fork, scrape across the bottom of the root ball. This should loosen some soil, and help you identify any more heavy, downward growing roots. Cut off the downward growing roots with root pruners or concave pruners. Then trim the remainder of the root ball flat with shears. Try to get it as smooth as possible.

Now set the tree upright on the flat bottom. Using bent tip tweezers and a root hook if necessary, comb the top of the root ball from trunk (nebari) out towards the edge. Scrape in one direction: from the trunk, out radially. Turn the tree around as you do this. You will almost surely find more long circling roots. Cut these off with sharp scissors.

Continue to work around, your goal is to create a slight slope down from the nebari to the edge of the rootball. Trim any upward growing roots off flat with the surface.

Now for the edges: using the bent tip tweezers, remove 3/4 of the soil all around the sides of the rootball. Any roots that extend beyond 3/4 inch, trim off with sharp scissors.

NOW, the HBR begins!

Select one half of the root ball to bare root. If could be any half, one side or the other. Front, back, left or right. I generally choose the weakest half. Using your bent tip tweezers, and root hook, remove as much soil as you can from that half. You will try to leave as many roots intact as possible, just remove the soil. If you need to, you can wash soil off with water, just be careful to leave the other side intact. It will probably require several iterations of washing, picking, washing, picking, washing... try to get all the way under 1/2 of the trunk. You will probably find more heavy tap roots that you can remove as you do this process.

So, when you are done, you have a rootball with soil on one side, with small roots sticking out 3/4 inch. The other side has a skeleton of roots! With lots of thinner roots.

Prepare the new pot, place soil in the bottom, build a mound of new soil, and scrunch the rootball into the mound. Tie it in securely. Now backfill with soil. Use chopsticks to gently push new soil into all the voids between the roots.

On the side that was not bare rooted, remember we left small roots hanging out? These are important. Make sure they get surrounded by the new mix. Use chop sticks to make sure they extend into the new mix.

Fill the pot up to the nebari with new soil. IMPORTANT STEP: with one hand push down on the nebari, with the other hand, tap the side of the pot with the meat of your fist a couple of times. Do all four sides. You will be amazed how this “settles” he soil! You’ll probably have to add more soil on top. Smooth the soil out level. NO mounding! The top of the soil should be about 1/4 inch below the rim of the pot. This assures all the water that hits the soil will stay in the pot and not run off.

Water until the run off water is clear.

Water every day. At first, you may need to water throughly to keep the old side moist as the new soil will drain very quickly. When new feeder roots start to grow, the new soil will still drain well, but not as fast as when brand new. At that time, the difference between the new and old soil is not as great, and you won’t have to worry about keeping the old half watered as much. Also, the tree will start using the HBR side more.

You can HBR the other side the following year, or wait another year if you like.

I have HBR’ed dozens of trees with 100% success.
 
Let’s assume we are starting with a typical nursery can. They are usually deeper than a bonsai pot. It’s usually safe to simply saw the bottom half of the existing root ball off entirely.

Inspect the bottom of the rootball. Identify the large “tap” roots growing staring down.

Using a 3 pronged root fork, scrape across the bottom of the root ball. <snip> identify any more heavy, downward growing roots. Cut off the downward growing roots <snip>Try to get it as smooth as possible.

<snip>... comb the top of the root ball from trunk (nebari) out towards the edge. Scrape in one direction: from the trunk, out radially<snip>

Now for the edges: using the bent tip tweezers, remove 3/4 of the soil all around the sides of the rootball. Any roots that extend beyond 3/4 inch, trim off with sharp scissors.

I hope to learn this a bit better, but the only thing I'd change is BEFORE you lop off the bottom half, find the nebari.
 
The HBR process was popularized by Boon. Boon Mix soil works very well for bonsai, but transitioning from traditional nursery soil to Boon Mix can lead to problems if not done correctly.

All that BS about the core, and it being the “heartbeat” of the tree is just that, BS. There are usually thick roots there with no feeders. How can that be the “heartbeat”?

Roots serve two purposes for a tree. One, they affix the tree into the soil. “Tap roots” hold the tree in place and support the tree and keep it from being blown over. We don’t need tap roots for bonsai because we tie the trees into the pits using wire. The tree should be tied in very securely, no wiggle at all. A tree that wiggles in the pot will have a difficult time growing new feeder roots as they are extremely tiny and fragile. Wiggle the tree in the soil, and you damage the new feeder roots.

The second purpose of the roots is to take up water and nutrients. This is done by the feeder roots. The mire feeder roots you have, the better the tree can absorb water and nutrients. A solid “shin” with all heavy roots, or compacted soil is just taking up valuable space in the pot that could be filled with feeder roots! You might as well bury a rock in there for all the good it does.

So, an ideal root ball is one that has a radial surface root system which break up into multiple smaller roots which in turn exploded into a mass of fibrous roots with feeders. An open, granular, well draining soil allows for oxygen and water to reach the roots. Every time the tree is watered, as the water passes down thru the soil, air is pulled down into the soil, pulling in oxygen to the roots.

Root rot occurs where anaerobic bacteria and fungus take over. Those live in the absence of oxygen. That means if your soil pulls in air, and oxygen, you won’t get root rot. A solid “shin” that is hard to get fresh water and air into is far more likely to develop root rot because of the lack of oxygen.

So... how do we transition to use a good inorganic bonsai Mix such as Boon Mix?

First off, let’s perform this procedure in the late winter/early spring when most trees will begin emerging from winter dormancy.

Let’s assume we are starting with a typical nursery can. They are usually deeper than a bonsai pot. It’s usually safe to simply saw the bottom half of the existing root ball off entirely. Then reduce the remaining rootball by removing any and all circling roots. All circling roots!

Inspect the bottom of the rootball. Identify the large “tap” roots growing staring down. Use a chop stick to probe around them and dig out the soil around them so you can see if there are any branchlets up higher closer to the trunk. Try to cut the heavy tap roots off shorter if you can.

Using a 3 pronged root fork, scrape across the bottom of the root ball. This should loosen some soil, and help you identify any more heavy, downward growing roots. Cut off the downward growing roots with root pruners or concave pruners. Then trim the remainder of the root ball flat with shears. Try to get it as smooth as possible.

Now set the tree upright on the flat bottom. Using bent tip tweezers and a root hook if necessary, comb the top of the root ball from trunk (nebari) out towards the edge. Scrape in one direction: from the trunk, out radially. Turn the tree around as you do this. You will almost surely find more long circling roots. Cut these off with sharp scissors.

Continue to work around, your goal is to create a slight slope down from the nebari to the edge of the rootball. Trim any upward growing roots off flat with the surface.

Now for the edges: using the bent tip tweezers, remove 3/4 of the soil all around the sides of the rootball. Any roots that extend beyond 3/4 inch, trim off with sharp scissors.

NOW, the HBR begins!

Select one half of the root ball to bare root. If could be any half, one side or the other. Front, back, left or right. I generally choose the weakest half. Using your bent tip tweezers, and root hook, remove as much soil as you can from that half. You will try to leave as many roots intact as possible, just remove the soil. If you need to, you can wash soil off with water, just be careful to leave the other side intact. It will probably require several iterations of washing, picking, washing, picking, washing... try to get all the way under 1/2 of the trunk. You will probably find more heavy tap roots that you can remove as you do this process.

So, when you are done, you have a rootball with soil on one side, with small roots sticking out 3/4 inch. The other side has a skeleton of roots! With lots of thinner roots.

Prepare the new pot, place soil in the bottom, build a mound of new soil, and scrunch the rootball into the mound. Tie it in securely. Now backfill with soil. Use chopsticks to gently push new soil into all the voids between the roots.

On the side that was not bare rooted, remember we left small roots hanging out? These are important. Make sure they get surrounded by the new mix. Use chop sticks to make sure they extend into the new mix.

Fill the pot up to the nebari with new soil. IMPORTANT STEP: with one hand push down on the nebari, with the other hand, tap the side of the pot with the meat of your fist a couple of times. Do all four sides. You will be amazed how this “settles” he soil! You’ll probably have to add more soil on top. Smooth the soil out level. NO mounding! The top of the soil should be about 1/4 inch below the rim of the pot. This assures all the water that hits the soil will stay in the pot and not run off.

Water until the run off water is clear.

Water every day. At first, you may need to water throughly to keep the old side moist as the new soil will drain very quickly. When new feeder roots start to grow, the new soil will still drain well, but not as fast as when brand new. At that time, the difference between the new and old soil is not as great, and you won’t have to worry about keeping the old half watered as much. Also, the tree will start using the HBR side more.

You can HBR the other side the following year, or wait another year if you like.

I have HBR’ed dozens of trees with 100% success.
Thanks for taking the time. Great info
 
I hope to learn this a bit better, but the only thing I'd change is BEFORE you lop off the bottom half, find the nebari.
The Winter Intensive will give you a thorough training in repotting. HBR and regular repots. Many say the Winter Intensive is their favorite!
 
Those ain't recorded or available to stream right ?
No. Boon has an on-site teaching program that is conducted at his nursery in California. The classes are for three days using his advanced material. The classes are winter (usually held in Jan/Feb), summer (May/June), and Fall (Oct/Nov). There are several dates for each class.

His entire program spans a three year time frame. He wants each student to attend each class 3 times. At the end there is an additional “winter 4” class which covers show preparation. He is flexible in that you can start anytime, and you can skip a class if your schedule doesn’t fit. To graduate the program, you still have to attend each class theee times, and take winter 4. There’s only about 30 graduates, although there are many who have taken some of the classes. See www. Bonsaiboon.com for more details.
 
No. Boon has an on-site teaching program that is conducted at his nursery in California. The classes are for three days using his advanced material. The classes are winter (usually held in Jan/Feb), summer (May/June), and Fall (Oct/Nov). There are several dates for each class.

His entire program spans a three year time frame. He wants each student to attend each class 3 times. At the end there is an additional “winter 4” class which covers show preparation. He is flexible in that you can start anytime, and you can skip a class if your schedule doesn’t fit. To graduate the program, you still have to attend each class theee times, and take winter 4. There’s only about 30 graduates, although there are many who have taken some of the classes. See www. Bonsaiboon.com for more details.
Have seen it and finishing the last video of the his series. Excellent stuff.
Yet traveling acroos the globe 4 times in a year for the classes will be a much added expense am afraid.
 
You can't rely on percentages really.

If you cut 1% of circling roots and it contained 90% of your feeder roots at the end of it........dead.

Care mostly for that core. That shin. That beating heart.

Different soil can be managed by keeping the whole thing well flushed when watering.
Water more for longer durations.
This'll keep what causes root rot flushed away.

Sorce
-----as long as your soil drains rapidly. If it does not you will have a problem.
 
-----as long as your soil drains rapidly. If it does not you will have a problem.
That was exactly my concern. any ideas around it?
my plan is to soak the pot in water to water the bonsai soil from below and trying my best to water the nursery soil part much less than I would water the bosai soil side.
 
I am on year 3 observing super soaked nursery pots.
The top always dries enough to keep good roots where we need them, while the low wet stuff may rot away.
It kinda works. Almost reliable, certainly not a death sentence.

Sorce
 
I am on year 3 observing super soaked nursery pots.
The top always dries enough to keep good roots where we need them, while the low wet stuff may rot away.
It kinda works. Almost reliable, certainly not a death sentence.

Sorce
Until it is.

Do you really want to take chances on a valuable tree you’ve worked on for three plus years?

Are you seriously recommending that others should be haphazard?

Look, people come here to learn how to do bonsai. (Except Smoke... he’s got his own motives). You have a zillion posts. You even have some kind of moderator status. Yet you advocate crappy techniques!

It’s time to grow up. You’ve been the clown of BonsaiNut long enough.
 
Until it is.

Do you really want to take chances on a valuable tree you’ve worked on for three plus years?

Are you seriously recommending that others should be haphazard?

Look, people come here to learn how to do bonsai. (Except Smoke... he’s got his own motives). You have a zillion posts. You even have some kind of moderator status. Yet you advocate crappy techniques!

It’s time to grow up. You’ve been the clown of BonsaiNut long enough.
Agreed. I absolutely enjoy and appreciate your posts, Adair. I have been doing bonsai long enough and have been on this forum long enough to know which members are experienced and from whom I can gain knowledge and accept advice from. However, newbies to the forum and to bonsai in general aren’t able to know who to believe and trust when they ask for advice and guidance. I see numerous posts by clowns offering advice to people when they are completely out of their element and have no idea what they’re talking about. This needs to stop. People are going to take this crappy advice and use it on their trees and they are going to kill them. Too many dead trees when people who are new to bonsai will result in people giving up and leaving the hobby. This is a shame.
 
Until it is.

Do you really want to take chances on a valuable tree you’ve worked on for three plus years?

Are you seriously recommending that others should be haphazard?

Look, people come here to learn how to do bonsai. (Except Smoke... he’s got his own motives). You have a zillion posts. You even have some kind of moderator status. Yet you advocate crappy techniques!

It’s time to grow up. You’ve been the clown of BonsaiNut long enough.

Whatever. (As aggresive as possible)

Here we go again?

No, not risking 3 years. 3 years into a study.
And you called the tree valuable, when only the study is.

Of which, each tree has thrived after repotting with it's good remaining small surface root mass.

There is no stench of root rot.

This.
It kinda works. Almost reliable

Is clearly not advocating.

Morons.

Sorce
 
Sorce, never change.
I don't understand what you say half the time, but it ain't Bonsainut until you reply to a thread.
You don't need to be right, just heard.
 
You'se read like shit.

Sorce
The thing is, whether you want to be considered an authority or not, I have seen posts where people HAVE taken some of the things you’ve said seriously!
 
I come in peace. But.

Fuck Authority.

Sincerely @Adair M you know what I was thinking is the reason it is near impossible for anyone to give advice.....

Based on what Walter has spoke about, in regards to his method, you have to do everything the same.

I realized EVERYONE'S method is their own, and in order to be successful in that method, you usually have to do everything else the same.

For instance, someone who can't Wire uniformly and correctly, can't necessarily spin off wire, cuz it's that wrong! You know the ones.

That's all I ever worry about when telling someone to do something.

Usually because if questions need to be answered before answers are given, I am thoughtful enough to ask them, but sometimes, it doesn't matter because a dead tree, just from pushing limits, will make for a better artist.

Truth...I just realized this.

I'm here to better the artist, not a tree.

An artist is going to make it the Long haul with a piece of shit nursery stock, or an artist isn't.

An artist won't mind a stack of dead trees, a thoughtful artist will learn from it.


We are all "right" in our own gardens.

Well, some of us aren't, the ones "upside-down" if you will, with more funds out than enjoyment taken in, those folks come here for help, from Walmart Junipers to professionally collected monsters.

Me, I'm right in my Garden because I do this for Close to Free.
I'm Honest, I just started not killing everything a short time ago, that's a lot of education.
Education that will have me confident to buy and keep alive something to "make the crowd happy" and then what?

I know that won't make me better than I am now.

But I'll seem way cooler?

Become an authority?

Hope not!

Sorce
 
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