Removing moss from a trunk/nebari

[TCEvan]

I found a white pine that seems like it has some potential that I want to explore a little more. I only had a moment to check out the tree when I found it before my 2 and 4 year old came running up and I had to divert their attention elsewhere.

The nebari/trunk base is fairly covered with moss/lichen. I'm wondering when, how, and what quantity of this to remove.

I'm planning to cut half the roots after the needles harden off this year. Then maybe the other half next year if it responds well, otherwise I'll wait. So it will be in the woods for at least another year or two. I'm assuming wait on any moss work until after I remove it?

 

[MaciekA]

The way I’d approach this:

- clear the base of the tree entirely of brush etc, and reveal the nebari to get a clean working area and to discover any other areas needing addressing
- remove all the moss that is attached to wood using tweezers, manually
- using a not-sopping small paintbrush (instead of a spray bottle), carefully paint all moss-affected areas with a coat of vinegar to suppress any moss spores

You could do this before or after collection but if I was “wild tending” a tree for a long time prior to collection I’d personally want to start on drying and weathering the bare bark as soon as I could.

 

[TCEvan]

The way I’d approach this:

- clear the base of the tree entirely of brush etc, and reveal the nebari to get a clean working area and to discover any other areas needing addressing
- remove all the moss that is attached to wood using tweezers, manually
- using a not-sopping small paintbrush (instead of a spray bottle), carefully paint all moss-affected areas with a coat of vinegar to suppress any moss spores

You could do this before or after collection but if I was “wild tending” a tree for a long time prior to collection I’d personally want to start on drying and weathering the bare bark as soon as I could.

Thanks for the advice!

Next time I'm able to head over to this property I'll start in on moss removal with some tweezers. Should the vinegar be full strength, or diluted down?

I'm considering leaving the blue hued lichen on it (or some of it, at least). If I'm careful enough, should it be possible to paint the vinegar in a way that will leave the lichen alive and vibrant, while suppressing adjacent moss? Or do you think it would be drawn over into the lichen by some capillary force or whatever?

 

[MaciekA]

I’m not sure about how the lichen will fare versus the vinegar. Last time I did this the vinegar was diluted. I don’t think it takes much.

If feeling cautious I’d do the tweezering at least.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Much care needed removing from bark manually as can easily pull off rough outer bark in operation.

 

[TCEvan]

I’m not sure about how the lichen will fare versus the vinegar. Last time I did this the vinegar was diluted. I don’t think it takes much.

If feeling cautious I’d do the tweezering at least.

Thanks agaon. I'll start out with some light tweezering for now, and save the vinegar for after collection when I have a bit more control over the tree.

 

[TCEvan]

Much care needed removing from bark manually as can easily pull off rough outer bark in operation.

That's my primary concern. The area under the moss has nice mature bark, which takes forever on EWP, so I'd like to preserve it as much as possible.

I've never had a moss situation on a trunk this severe, so I wasn't sure if removing it all at once might be too much for the bark and cause it to dry out too quickly and flake off easily or some other issue I'm not even thinking of yet.

I'll just go very slowly and cautiously on it. Taking off the loosest pieces first and working my way around with time.

 

[rockm]

I wouldn't worry about the moss at this point. I'd try to find out if the section with the moss is actually alive. From the photo, it looks like the living trunk is growing from underneath a dead section. If it is, then the moss doesn't make any difference.

 

[TCEvan]

I wouldn't worry about the moss at this point. I'd try to find out if the section with the moss is actually alive. From the photo, it looks like the living trunk is growing from underneath a dead section. If it is, then the moss doesn't make any difference.

There's definitely a significant deadwood section terminating in that horizontal branch. How would you determine where the deadwood ends and living trunk starts under the moss? The moss wraps completely to the forest floor and around the living trunk, so I know that it is on at least some living wood.

Also, when you say it doesn't make any difference on the deadwood, is that because the bark will strip off the deadwood with time anyways so who cares if it's destroyed with moss removal? or because the moss is somehow detrimental to the living wood?

 

[MaciekA]

The moss is not detrimental to the living wood, it's detrimental to the appearance of the bark for bonsai purposes. Presumably one of the points of digging up a white pine from the woods is the value of the base. Everything related to maturity takes a long time with white pine, whether that's ramification or aging of the bark. In my experience the more established that moss is on tree bark, the more disappointing the surface appearance underneath that bark. The prescription then becomes to clean it up and resume open-aired weathering/aging, which is a long-term process.

If I was in your position and withholding harvesting until some distant future date, I would want to start progress on drying out and weathering what I already know will be a disappointing surface relative to what I'd like to have at the base. Whether it's plain outer-layer white pine bark that's been stained by the moss or a deeper layer of bark that was revealed by peeling off wet bark that's been softened by moss, I personally would want to start on moss-free weathering of that bark sooner rather than later, hence cleaning it up now and letting it sit in the elements until you harvest, all while supressing more moss. Hence the guidance of getting started on "drying and weathering the bare bark as soon as I could" in my initial reply. You can take whatever approach makes you feel comfortable about harvesting, and you can also say "gee that's a lot of meticulousness when it comes to a tree that's gonna sit in the woods for another 18 to 24 months", but cleaning moss from a trunk represents no danger to a white pine, and the state of affairs under that moss doesn't improve over time, aesthetically-speaking.

 

[rockm]

There's definitely a significant deadwood section terminating in that horizontal branch. How would you determine where the deadwood ends and living trunk starts under the moss? The moss wraps completely to the forest floor and around the living trunk, so I know that it is on at least some living wood.

Also, when you say it doesn't make any difference on the deadwood, is that because the bark will strip off the deadwood with time anyways so who cares if it's destroyed with moss removal? or because the moss is somehow detrimental to the living wood?

Look, I'm going to get a bit realistic about what I can see in the photo, so if you're dead set on collecting it, ignore me.

Here goes--I would suspect that the moss and lichens are concentrated primarily on dead wood, as the deadwood is probably a consistent source of moisture from the rotting wood underneath that probably acts like a sponge. It provides an ideal environment for all that growth.

And, forgive me, but from what is visible in the photo at least, the living section is mostly uninteresting--no lower branching, immature bark no movement a beanpole. Also you say it's a white pine (pinus strobus--it would be great if you could fill in your location as that has a bearing on species available to you)--which means it's unlikely to get any more interesting as it ages. White pine make mediocre bonsai at best, unless you can get a substantial trunk with some age. This one has neither. Once you remove all that lichen and moss from the deadwood, you're likely to be left with not much of a trunk. As it is now, that lichen and moss community is probably the most interesting part of the tree.

Bottom line is I wouldn't bother with collecting this one. There are probably better candidates around. If you like it, mark with a piece of ribbon or cloth tied to a limb or the trunk. Come back in a few years and have another look.

 

[TCEvan]

Look, I'm going to get a bit realistic about what I can see in the photo, so if you're dead set on collecting it, ignore me.

Here goes--I would suspect that the moss and lichens are concentrated primarily on dead wood, as the deadwood is probably a consistent source of moisture from the rotting wood underneath that probably acts like a sponge. It provides an ideal environment for all that growth.

And, forgive me, but from what is visible in the photo at least, the living section is mostly uninteresting--no lower branching, immature bark no movement a beanpole. Also you say it's a white pine (pinus strobus--it would be great if you could fill in your location as that has a bearing on species available to you)--which means it's unlikely to get any more interesting as it ages. White pine make mediocre bonsai at best, unless you can get a substantial trunk with some age. This one has neither. Once you remove all that lichen and moss from the deadwood, you're likely to be left with not much of a trunk. As it is now, that lichen and moss community is probably the most interesting part of the tree.

Bottom line is I wouldn't bother with collecting this one. There are probably better candidates around. If you like it, mark with a piece of ribbon or cloth tied to a limb or the trunk. Come back in a few years and have another look.

Thanks for the advice again! I'm in northern Michigan, so yes, strobus. I filled it in on my account, thanks for letting me know!

I'll take what you said to heart and look at it with a more critical eye when I head over to these woods next week. It does have some nice low branching/budding, which I was thinking could be a future leader if necessary They can be seen better in this photo (wish I had taken more photos). However, I haven't been thinking enough about the time that will need to go into barking up the trunk because I was intrigued by the base.

 

[rockm]

Thanks for the advice again! I'm in northern Michigan, so yes, strobus. I filled it in on my account, thanks for letting me know!

I'll take what you said to heart and look at it with a more critical eye when I head over to these woods next week. It does have some nice low branching/budding, which I was thinking could be a future leader if necessary They can be seen better in this photo (wish I had taken more photos). However, I haven't been thinking enough about the time that will need to go into barking up the trunk because I was intrigued by the base.

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FWIW Collecting is all about selectivity--why make the effort if what you get is meh...Don't get stuck on one particular quirk on a candidate--almost every tree has one. The trick to great collecting is finding a tree with a quirk as well as decent supporting features (good nebari, bark, movement)

Beyond the mass of lichens and moss and old dead bark here, there is only a middling sapling of a tree with no bark or movement to make it worth the effort, as far as I can tell. The bark you've fixated on won't last post collection (it is most likely rotting away underneath the moss) and it will be two decades before the upright living portion even begins to "bark up" in a container.

 

[TCEvan]

FWIW Collecting is all about selectivity--why make the effort if what you get is meh...Don't get stuck on one particular quirk on a candidate--almost every tree has one. The trick to great collecting is finding a tree with a quirk as well as decent supporting features (good nebari, bark, movement)

Thanks again for the help! I'll keep it in mind when on the hunt, and try to look more critically, especially when I get excited about something!