Redesign on heritage San Jose Juniper

[NaoTK]

So I just wrapped up pot making for Nationals and finally had time to work on trees.

I got this San Jose juniper from Dave Degroot last year; it is 27yo as Dave keeps meticulous notes. Dave is super nice and generous and I am very grateful. It is my only juniper bonsai because I am a deciduous person. I have some questions for you juniper folk down below.

As received this is the front:


After spinning it around for a few months, I favor a more dynamic flowing design like this:


The canopy was too billowy and dense, obstructing the flow design. I cut back branches to closest growth point and I removed crowded areas for future jins.
The future apex will be moving towards the viewer and up to the left. Oh yeah, ignore the terrible wiring it is temporary.


Questions for you juniper folk: calling out @Ruddigger at first because that is his thing

Honor the legacy of this tree and keep the San Jose foliage? I am not a fan of it because the juvenile growth habit is leggy, limiting design, not necessarily because I like adult foliage. But another shimpaku bonsai is another shimpaku bonsai...
Any further style recommendations? I'm set on this front but I'm happy to tilt and remove branches to accentuate the dynamism.
I want to shari the trunk but I would like first hand advice on timing and extent to limit risk to the tree. I have done it before where you make circles one year and slowly connect them over a couple years. Would love to hear suggestions on path of the live vein.

Thanks!

 

[Ruddigger]

I’d graft Itoigawa. San Jose is always a mix of juvenile and scale, it’s kind of a mess.

I do like the trunk movement on your new front, but I liked the base better on the original. Your new front would make a really cool windswept. The best ones always start off going into the wind before curving back again

I wouldn't worry too much about the shari, as long as you aren’t completely cutting off a path to a living branch you’ll be fine, just don’t go overboard, this tree doesn't need much in my opinion.

 

[NaoTK]

I’d graft Itoigawa. San Jose is always a mix of juvenile and scale, it’s kind of a mess.

I do like the trunk movement on your new front, but I liked the base better on the original. Your new front would make a really cool windswept. The best ones always start off going into the wind before curving back again

I wouldn't worry too much about the shari, as long as you aren’t completely cutting off a path to a living branch you’ll be fine, just don’t go overboard, this tree doesn't need much in my opinion.

Windswept, that's a good idea. Why do you like itoigawa? I have enough of every cultivar to graft.

What time of year did you shari?

edit: I will stare at different foliage types this weekend at Nationals and decide!

 

[Ruddigger]

Down here, time of year doesnt matter, though its easier in the spring when the cambium comes off easily. I like Itoigawa because its way less prone to spider mites than Kishu.

Bold moves to change a heritage tree, I would probably have preserved the original design.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Weird thought, but why not meet in the middle of scale and juvenile foliage and graft procumbens nana on it? It's way tighter but still needle foliage.

 

[Ruddigger]

Nana also goes part scale, though. At least it does down here.

 

[Shibui]

Agree that the new front has much more interesting trunk line. I think the trunk line improvement outweighs and reduction in nebari.
Shimpaku foliage is certainly more compact and easier to tame but that's going to take quite a few grafts and a good few years to change it all over. A design with less branches would be easier and quicker to graft and redevelop branching.

My experience is that junipers don't usually have 'live veins' unless there's already shari on the trunk. All healthy bark has cambium and active sap pathways under it. There may be some stronger pathways between certain strong roots and strong branches above but while there is good bark the tree can usually change sap paths which means spiral shari is possible with some consideration if that's required.
I've also made shari on juniper at all different times of year and also found that it is far easier when the tree is active because the bark comes off so much easier. In winter every scrap of bark will need to be painstakingly scraped off. Just be careful when stripping bark for shari in the active spring growth as it is very easy to slip and remove way more than intended. Cut through bark along the edges of the chosen shari then peel slowly to make sure you got right down through all bark layers.
Also note that the jins you have left now should probably be peeled while still fresh. As the sap stops flowing the bark will stick on and require time and effort to remove. If done when the branch is first cut the bark should slip off like a glove or banana peel. I suspect that by the time the bark is off some of those jins will be disappointingly thin. It takes quite a substantial branch to leave a satisfying jin allowing for thickness of bark on all sides of the branch.

I do not see conflict in redesigning heritage trees. Bonsai is about growth and change. I know I would be happy for future growers to change and improve my trees after I've handed them down.

 

[Gabler]

Down here, time of year doesnt matter, though its easier in the spring when the cambium comes off easily. I like Itoigawa because its way less prone to spider mites than Kishu.

Bold moves to change a heritage tree, I would probably have preserved the original design.

It was hardly a radical redesign. It was just a bit of cleaning and a shift of viewing angle.

 

[namnhi]

Am glad you choose to replace that foliage... that is one of the reason I don't like junipers.

 

[Shogun610]

I like the new front , and I also like that you cut back the foliage to get some sun and get back budding , as for grafting , I am not experienced in that endeavor but I am following along for interest

 

[NaoTK]

Thank you all for your responses! I did lose a little sleep over this one. For the record I do not believe there is anything sacred about a tree's design and I hope future owners will re-do my trees.

Interesting where the poll is at vs what people comment. Maybe people are wedded to the "heritage" idea. I am 90% in the graft camp at this point, I don't care how long it will take. I will look at trees at the Nationals this weekend for ideas.



About shari, I think I will shari this one, just maybe not a Japan-level of extreme shari. Shari adds a new dimension of design I don't want to miss out on. I will share my proposed live vein path when I work it out.

Also note that the jins you have left now should probably be peeled while still fresh.

Thank you, will do.

 

[Maiden69]

I am 90% in the graft camp at this point, I don't care how long it will take. I will look at trees at the Nationals this weekend for ideas.

It depends on which way you go. I think Bjorn switch a few years ago from grafting scions to approach grafting whips and said that what took 5-10 years now he could achieve in 3-5 yrs. Mirai also have a stream of one of his RMJ that he couldn't get the foliage to improve and he grafted a few whips on. Mirai is sold out on them now, but I'm sure if you call Ryan they may have a few available.

On the tree, I really love the new style. A change in foliage will improve it greatly.

 

[Ruddigger]

It was hardly a radical redesign. It was just a bit of cleaning and a shift of viewing angle.

I didn’t say it was. I also didnt say there was something wrong with it, just that I’d be hesitant to do it. The history of it has value, and something I would take into consideration.

@NaoTK how tall is this tree?

 

[pandacular]

I really love the color of San Jose junipers, but I would be endlessly frustrated managing the different kinds of foliage. J. procumbens acts similar, but I understand that it's easier to get that species to be pure scale foliage with time and skill.

Lovely tree, I already think you've improved it just by finding the more dynamic front.

 

[NaoTK]

@NaoTK how tall is this tree?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

We have quite a number of juniper varieties at the museum where the Fleet Admiral and I volunteer weekly… and spend a good deal of time working on and viewing these trees year around.

Aesthetically I feel a well designed maintained juniper of any kind can give the viewer a sense of flow …and if done well a sense of awe. I won’t comment on the design change per se as design change is tricky everyone has an opinion.

What I will say for me the new design in the top hamper needs a bit more simplification to give the viewer that deeper sense of flow. Perhaps inadequately put, the design appears to need smoothing out, removal and/or simplification of some elements to open it up now and to make room for the future. Maybe that’s in the works.

imho a well placed, meandering longitudinal Shari or two would help, but not solve this.

Also the sticky wicket are some junipers require a bit more maintenance beyond trimming (old needles on stems, deadwood cleaning, wiring etc) than others and San Jose falls in the former group for me. Just my thoughts on that

Finally, just got a message this weekend that Eric Schrader is selling small itogawa junipers. These could be grafting stock, or contacting him for larger stock, could help get you on the way if you choose to graft. Also Brent at evergreengardenworks has both shimpaku and Kishu gallons availabl.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[ZombieNick]

Interesting where the poll is at vs what people comment. Maybe people are wedded to the "heritage" idea. I am 90% in the graft camp at this point, I don't care how long it will take. I will look at trees at the Nationals this weekend for ideas.

I voted but didn't comment so I'll give some context. My opinion is pretty biased and is purely based on the fact that I, personally, do not own any San Jose junipers, but I do own a number of Shimpaku. The tree seems to be a suitable size to make the longer foliage work, I'd try to keep it just to have something different. Re-reading your post, if it were my only juniper, I'd definitely be tempted to graft it. I'd go Itoigawa, but that's preference, Kishu is prone to spider mites here.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

btw I’ve a couple Kishu, shimpaku and nana etc in our yard in mostly full sun. No spider mites up here, with no systemics used.

Dunno about the Portland area.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[shimbrypaku]

I personally like the original picture, just thought it needed a light thinning.
Just my opinion.

Thanks

 

[Wood]

Have you thought about grafting fudo or one-seed juniper onto it instead of Itoigawa? Fudo is supposed to stay closer to a blue shade. Apparently One-seed juniper foliage behaves really nicely, so you'd at least be keeping it kind-of-native? Plus, we need more people working with native foliage to figure it out like the Japanese have their species dialed in.