Question about developing pine primary branches

[Kudo]

I currently have a couple of black pines which are still in initial trunk fattening and development phase. However, I’ve been studying a lot further pine techniques on more advanced material. On several sources they recommend developing trunk first and letting some low buds that will on the future be developed to became primary branches, just like this photo taken from Jonas Dupuich Bonsai Tonight blog:


Source: https://bonsaitonight.com/2019/05/2...ent-to-branch-refinement-japanese-black-pine/

We all know that low branches has to be bigger and more ramified than upper branches. So one question came to my mind: After developing trunk and starting to develop branches with buds that are almost the same size how will you avoid the upper branches becoming the same sizer or, worse, bigger and more ramified than lower branches?

As pines are apically dominant, the upper branches will grow more. We can balance the vigor by decandling but won’t this make upper and lower branches to be the same size and same number or ramifications?

I thought about not decandling lower branches and decandling upper branches to give more vigor and thicken lower branches, but this would lead to a more ramified upper branch than the lower branch. Is the answer decandling upper branches but only select one bud instead of two and letting lower branches grow untouched? What about intermediate levels of branches?

Thank you.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I think it works the same way as thickening a trunk: let a shoot run free while you keep the rest of the shoots on the same branch in check. When the perfect thickness is achieved, you cut back to the secondaries you've been cutting back all the time.

But I'm not sure. It's what I'm starting next year for some of mine.

 

[PiñonJ]

I currently have a couple of black pines which are still in initial trunk fattening and development phase. However, I’ve been studying a lot further pine techniques on more advanced material. On several sources they recommend developing trunk first and letting some low buds that will on the future be developed to became primary branches, just like this photo taken from Jonas Dupuich Bonsai Tonight blog:

View attachment 336767
Source: https://bonsaitonight.com/2019/05/2...ent-to-branch-refinement-japanese-black-pine/

We all know that low branches has to be bigger and more ramified than upper branches. So one question came to my mind: After developing trunk and starting to develop branches with buds that are almost the same size how will you avoid the upper branches becoming the same sizer or, worse, bigger and more ramified than lower branches?

As pines are apically dominant, the upper branches will grow more. We can balance the vigor by decandling but won’t this make upper and lower branches to be the same size and same number or ramifications?

I thought about not decandling lower branches and decandling upper branches to give more vigor and thicken lower branches, but this would lead to a more ramified upper branch than the lower branch. Is the answer decandling upper branches but only select one bud instead of two and letting lower branches grow untouched? What about intermediate levels of branches?

Thank you.

You seem to be over-thinking it. Don’t de-candle until you have the length that you want. So some parts of your tree will be in refinement while other parts are still in development.

 

[Shibui]

Both the answers are accurate.
I also use an intermediate technique for developing pines. Shoots can be allowed to grow for up to 2 years to thicken branches and/or trunks. Provided there are healthy needles (which usually live for 2-3 years) you can cut the branch back and expect new buds to grow from the remaining needles. That way I can get thickening in the base of the branches then use the new shoots to regrow the remaining branch structure to give taper as well as thickness and ramification.
Developing branches in pine is somewhat similar to developing branches on deciduous in that we prune selectively to retain useful and attractive parts while removing unwanted parts. We also prune more and more often in the upper and stronger areas to prevent those areas from overtaking the weaker parts.

So some parts of your tree will be in refinement while other parts are still in development.

This is a key concept for all bonsai. All parts of a tree are never treated the same way. Use whatever techniques give the results you need for the stage of growth and the part of the tree that needs it.

 

[Ryceman3]

All the advice given above seems to be sound to me, so I would just add that in order to balance energy distribution on pines, needle plucking (thinning) is your friend. Pluck/cut (whatever technique you prefer) more needles from areas you wish to check growth and keep more in areas you are looking to build vigour. As the tree gets more advanced, things tend to simplify and you end up being able to apply the same essential techniques across the whole tree... but then you have other issues like where to cut back when a branch has over-developed and outgrown the silhouette you want ... etc ...

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Question :

By virtue of following the broad guideline that higher branches are shorter than lower branches (and nodes should shorten along each branch), would we be cutting back the higher branches more often, by aesthetic necessity?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Question :

By virtue of following the broad guideline that higher branches are shorter than lower branches (and nodes should shorten along each branch), would we be cutting back the higher branches more often, by aesthetic necessity?

If you are doing an effective job balancing strength on your pines, you will significantly slow down the rate of growth at the top of your tree.