Propagation by cutting(s)

[Poink88]

Of all the book and magazine articles I've read about cutting propagation, all are alluding on taking twig (1/8" to 1/4" branch - except ficus) cuttings...why is this? Can't bigger branches be used? I have lots of books (granted I haven't read most of them yet) but it seems consistent. Am I mistaken and it is recommended somewhere?

Last mid-summer I experimented and planted three (2" to 3" dia) yaupon holly branch cuttings and they all took but crazy me did not protect them during winter and the frost killed them. Post mortem investigation showed all of them rooted though.

Imagine the potential if you can propagate Trident Maple from 2"-3" dia cuttings. That will save you about what, 4 years?

I actually started a few last week and will report the progress (failure or success) here.

 

[catfish chapstick]

you can root willow cuttings in water alone, even large thick ones

 

[berobinson82]

Dario, are you using turface fines for propagation medium?

 

[lordy]

you can root willow cuttings in water alone, even large thick ones

And water that has had willow cuttings in it for a short time will aid other kinds of plants to root.

 

[lordy]

I have done some kingsville cuttings that were older, maybe not huge, but close to 1/2" diameter and hardly anything holds them back. I just peeked at my winter storage of trees and all kingsville cuttings look nice and green, just like momma.

 

[Poink88]

Dario, are you using turface fines for propagation medium?

No. I am using re-cycled soil and they may have some; turface, bark, real soil, sphagnum peat, perlite, etc. I do not baby my plants in training, newly collected, or being propagated.

 

[Poink88]

you can root willow cuttings in water alone, even large thick ones

Correct. I forgot to add that with ficus.

 

[Poink88]

I have done some kingsville cuttings that were older, maybe not huge, but close to 1/2" diameter and hardly anything holds them back. I just peeked at my winter storage of trees and all kingsville cuttings look nice and green, just like momma.

I also did that with Japanese boxwood and have a descent cutting that survived winter w/o protection. This is more for experiment (as are the yaupon) since I have more of those than anything else in my collection.

 

[berobinson82]

No. I am using re-cycled soil and they may have some; turface, bark, real soil, sphagnum peat, perlite, etc. I do not baby my plants in training, newly collected, or being propagated.

Nothing about babying your plants. I don't ever know what that is supposed to mean. Just curious if the guy who preaches turface above all else uses the fines for anything.

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?9554-After-sifting-soil-do-you-use-the-fines-for-anything

Are you not a sifter?

I was planning on doing some J maple cuttings this year and I was going to use the fines per the recommendations in the above thread.

 

[Poink88]

I do not sift and I am not saying using fine turface (or sand) is wrong (it could be much better). I just shared what I do/use.

Re: the reference to babying...a lot of people say or claim using soil mix with real soil is a sure cause for root rot and "black death". That the soil have to be sterile, etc. I am not a believer of that. I throw the cutting in the soil and let them be. If they survive good, if not, I try again later. Most of them survive though....even 2 juniper cuttings which really surprised me since I did not even treat it with hormone...just stuck it in a small pot lying around.

 

[rockm]

The simple reason that smaller cuttings are used is because they are the most successful at taking. Doesn't mean larger cuttings won't work, just that if you want more successful cuttings, small is better.

Has to do with energy and abilty of newer tissues to regenerate roots. Older tissues aren't as responsive.

Some plants root like weeds. I've found boxwood is one of those, as are certain species of holly, bald cypress and a few others. I've got a decidous holly planted in may back yard that has root 8 inch pieces of pruned wood left on the ground...

 

[milehigh_7]

If you read Dirr & Heuser you will see that there are many factors in successful propagation. Obviously, species is number 1. Other factors they talk about are time of year (and day) cuttings are taken, type of hormone used, type of cutting (heel, tip etc), location on the mother plant (higher success closer to the ground)and juvenility of the parent plant in question.


There are obviously more but I am not sure diameter matters near as much as the other factors. Clearly you are going to have trouble finding a 2" softwood cutting to try so it can't be a plant that only roots with soft wood.

 

[Poink88]

The simple reason that smaller cuttings are used is because they are the most successful at taking. Doesn't mean larger cuttings won't work, just that if you want more successful cuttings, small is better.

Has to do with energy and abilty of newer tissues to regenerate roots. Older tissues aren't as responsive.

Thanks. That's exactly what I thought but why wouldn't authors say that? To me it should be qualified like you did but mention it. Right now, most people have a nice cutting but won't even try using it and throw it. Instead they will get the twigs and try to propagate those. Because of what they've read on books. Crazy!

 

[yenling83]

I like taking smaller cuttings because you can create movement in the future trunk using wire-something we don't do enough of in the U.S. You can do larger cuttings, with a small success rate. Or you can air layer, which should give you a higher success rate.

 

[Poink88]

I like taking smaller cuttings because you can create movement in the future trunk using wire-something we don't do enough of in the U.S. You can do larger cuttings, with a small success rate. Or you can air layer, which should give you a higher success rate.

The downside with air layer is that you are impacting the development of the mother plant some.

I have 3 trident maple saplings that I wired/bent the trunks to give them slight "character" last year...not cutting but in a way, similar to what you described.

 

[rockm]

"That's exactly what I thought but why wouldn't authors say that? To me it should be qualified like you did but mention it"

Because it is more complicated than simple diameter, as Milehigh says. This has to do with hormones present in the cutting that "tell" stem tissue to become root tissue. Species has everthing to with this and there is no real blanket kind of advice that can be given for successful cuttings.

 

[Poink88]

"That's exactly what I thought but why wouldn't authors say that? To me it should be qualified like you did but mention it"

Because it is more complicated than simple diameter, as Milehigh says. This has to do with hormones present in the cutting that "tell" stem tissue to become root tissue. Species has everthing to with this and there is no real blanket kind of advice that can be given for successful cuttings.

Exactly...that is why qualifying the statement is needed and let the readers know of possible options...maybe even encourage experiments (learning). Better in my book than limiting the possibilities. Maybe it is just me?

 

[Poink88]

If you read Dirr & Heuser you will see that there are many factors in successful propagation. Obviously, species is number 1. Other factors they talk about are time of year (and day) cuttings are taken, type of hormone used, type of cutting (heel, tip etc), location on the mother plant (higher success closer to the ground)and juvenility of the parent plant in question.


There are obviously more but I am not sure diameter matters near as much as the other factors. Clearly you are going to have trouble finding a 2" softwood cutting to try so it can't be a plant that only roots with soft wood.

Clyde, Thanks but I don't have that book. Sounds like a good one.

By the way. Based on my experience and observation...it seems cuttings with relatively thicker phloem has the best survival rate. I am new to bonsai but have been doing cuttings and airlayering since I was 4 years old, helping in the farm, yard, and garden. I recall several huge branches we use as fence posts actually sprout and grow!!!

 

[garywood]

Dario, as Mark and Clyde inferred, books and articles are generally geared to address two audiences. The industry where success and efficiency is critical for profit and the novice where only basic information is needed for success. Like Mark said, there is a large range in between with a lot of possibilities but gets a little more specialized. Experience is the best teacher. Trident for example, 2"-3" cuttings will root using bottom heat @50dgrees and ambient air temp between 40-45f taken in late winter. Keep playing
Wood

 

[Poink88]

Experience is the best teacher. Trident for example, 2"-3" cuttings will root using bottom heat @50dgrees and ambient air temp between 40-45f taken in late winter. Keep playing

Thanks Gary...and yes I intend to.