Procumbens juniper strategy?

[Bonsai_Bentley]

I picked up my second ever procumbens this weekend. While this is my second of this variety, it is my first pre-bonsai piece. The previous one is a legacy tree. What is the strategy with these trees? Mine looks pretty typical. Low to the ground with an almost 2' long horizontal runner. My typical approach would be to wire the leader into position (a more vertical orientation), toss it into the ground in a grow bag and trunk chop as necessary until my desired trunk width is achieved.

However, I've seen lots and lots of ppl essentially go straight to potting these though. Do they grow so slowly that putting them in the ground is an exercise in extreme patience or are ppl jumping the gun? I'd like to have ~1.5' tall tree from base to tip (lol, immature joke popped into my head) with a proportionally appropriate width to the trunk. If I potted it I would focus on the potting process and setting initial structure first. Styling/pruning wouldn't be until spring 2021.

 

[canoeguide]

I'll help you out and bump this thread because I'm curious also - hopefully, someone with some knowledge can respond. I have a couple of mallsai-sized pro-nana cuttings that are at best 3/8" caliper. I'm not really interested in doing much with them at that size, so I too am wondering what the strategy is here. Do they actually grow in the ground/grow boxes or is it just not worth it?

 

[BunjaeKorea]

A tree in a pot has severely restricted space. This means that there are less resources to take advantage of. A tree in tge ground( depending on species) will have 3 to 5 times greater growth output. The problem is that roots become to spread, hence a grow bag is used. You will find a massive difference once you try. I wish I had more land to grow more trees.

 

[Japonicus]

It is jumping the gun to have an 18" tree with a convincing trunk size, if you pot it up for bonsai.

To remove 20+ years of growth or not?

This is my oldest bonsai, duly named Alpha, surviving my "holocaust" when I burned most of my trees up in a cold frame years ago. The few that survived were small enough to go on the ground, rather than what makeshift bench I made on top of the plastic bottom which held some rain runoff...

www.bonsainut.com

Here's a prime example ^, but I don't think there is enough patience between you and me put together
to achieve a great trunk for an 18" procumbens.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

It is jumping the gun to have an 18" tree with a convincing trunk size, if you pot it up for bonsai.

To remove 20+ years of growth or not?

This is my oldest bonsai, duly named Alpha, surviving my "holocaust" when I burned most of my trees up in a cold frame years ago. The few that survived were small enough to go on the ground, rather than what makeshift bench I made on top of the plastic bottom which held some rain runoff...

www.bonsainut.com

Here's a prime example ^, but I don't think there is enough patience between you and me put together
to achieve a great trunk for an 18" procumbens.

Ground growing

 

[Japonicus]

Ground growing

It still is procumbens, but yes that's the best bet. In landscapes they sprawl out and remain relatively thin
but I have seen, and owned a procumbens with a 2" trunk though not often encountered for this hillbilly.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

It still is procumbens, but yes that's the best bet. In landscapes they sprawl out and remain relatively thin
but I have seen, and owned a procumbens with a 2" trunk though not often encountered for this hillbilly.

Haha you got to train them upright which will improve it slighlty but still 3 times faster for procumens is still super slow. I think they and shimpaku have a competition going for who can grow slower

 

[canoeguide]

Haha you got to train them upright which will improve it slighlty but still 3 times faster for procumens is still super slow. I think they and shimpaku have a competition going for who can grow slower

So basically, ground growth is going to be the best, but even that is pretty darn slow.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

So basically, ground growth is going to be the best, but even that is pretty darn slow.

Amen!

 

[Adair M]

If you want a taller tree, stake it upright. You may want to tilt the rootball one way or the other to make a nice transition from the ground to the trunk. But ground growing, combined with staking it up should give you a decent trunk. These naturally grow sideways. Not up. But, if you stake it up, you can get a nice vertical trunk. With movement. And the branches will naturally hang down. Easy peasy!

 

[Japonicus]

Do they actually grow in the ground/grow boxes or is it just not worth it?

Yes they do, they are worth the effort, but don't limit yourself to procumbens.
Wire it up young and twist it too. Nothing short of 360º or even more from base to apex, next Fall.
Very easy and best to do with that size. Keep an upper leader wild to sacrifice later
keeping lower branches too, and that should help with girth.
Feed it often with high N in bonsai soil with free roaming available for the roots.
I kept mine in a bonsai pot since before I got it over 20 yrs ago and would bet the trunk is not 1.5" diameter.
if you followed that link I posted above. It was a Lowes stick in a pot when I got it, all glued in.

 

[Beanwagon]

Beanwagons Nana #1

This was the 1st Juniper Squamatta that i purchased. It has been very neglected. I put it in the ground and had planned to keep it there for as long as possible to thicken it up, however i have to move house now so i put it in the largest pot i could find. A picture from January 2016...

www.bonsainut.com

I have found that they grow quicker than expected. For this one I placed it in the largest pot i have laying around and fed/watered regularly.

 

[bwaynef]

I know where there's a bunch of pronanas that've been in the ground for 40+ years (towards the middle of the state), and there's not much trunk visible from the pictures. I doubt you're going to get a huge trunk by JUST planting it in the ground. If you do plant it out, I'd definitely stake it. Also, before you do ANYTHING else, learn how to clean junipers.

 

[penumbra]

All good advise here but I have a question for the OP. Why are you concerned about putting it in the ground and waiting. Just do it and get some other trees to work with and take your mind off it. I am 70 and have many trees and plants in the ground. I plan out 10 years at a time.

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

Thanks for the info everyone! I had come to the conclusion that I was just gonna wire it up a bit and then toss it in ground in a grow bag. I finally dug into it a bit more and found that there are two major whips. I'm going to wire one up and the other down into the ground and then back out to form a connected trunk style. I'll toss it into my "bon-yard" along with the other growing stock. I typically like to put a barrier in my grow bags, but I don't think I want to touch the roots right now. I think for now I'm just gonna dig a hole and put it in the ground in the nursery pot. I can do the grow bag work in the spring.

I know where there's a bunch of pronanas that've been in the ground for 40+ years (towards the middle of the state), and there's not much trunk visible from the pictures. I doubt you're going to get a huge trunk by JUST planting it in the ground. If you do plant it out, I'd definitely stake it. Also, before you do ANYTHING else, learn how to clean junipers.

I've cleaned one procumbens juniper lol. I have a few parsoni though. With procumbens it seems that the strategy is to just clean the bottoms of the pads and only wire out to where the pad starts?

All good advise here but I have a question for the OP. Why are you concerned about putting it in the ground and waiting. Just do it and get some other trees to work with and take your mind off it. I am 70 and have many trees and plants in the ground. I plan out 10 years at a time.

That's my typical plan and I have several trees in the ground now. I was just wondering if the growth rate on procumbens is so slow that putting it in the ground really doesn't buy you much.

 

[penumbra]

That's my typical plan and I have several trees in the ground now. I was just wondering if the growth rate on procumbens is so slow that putting it in the ground really doesn't buy you much

I see. Well in the ground is easy and you get good growth, but despite this and contrary to what others say, you could actually grow it faster in a pot with constant fertilization and maintaining all nutrient levels. You have a long growing season where you live.

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

I see. Well in the ground is easy and you get good growth, but despite this and contrary to what others say, you could actually grow it faster in a pot with constant fertilization and maintaining all nutrient levels. You have a long growing season where you live.

Dang it. I thought I had a plan lol I guess I've got time to figure it out. Thanks for the input!