Pre bonsai maple help with next steps

[Bonsaipadawan]

I bought this from someone recently it seems to have received some decent care and planning already as the trunk has been chopped and had cut paste applied. The soil level is relatively low and has a semi decent looking nabari. I was wondering what my next steps are as my other maples are just saplings I planted by seed a year and a half ago.

What should I be doing, should I be doing any pruning to maybe cause some ramifications or like bud pinching?

Maybe some wiring? I am quite new to bonsai and most of my experience styling so far is with junipers.

Thanks for checking out my post.

 

[Shibui]

There are many different approaches to developing bonsai and most will end up with a reasonable bonsai. Some different approaches depend on what size and standard of bonsai you are aiming for.
To develop thicker trunk, impressive bonsai the usual approaches are regular grow and chop cycles either in larger containers or in the ground.
For a smaller, generic bonsai a few grow and prune cycles should develop a reasonable canopy but won't increase trunk thickness much.

Japanese maples look great but can be challenging to develop good bonsai.
Like most JM pre-bonsai yours appears to have long internodes. Buds only ever come from nodes so long internodes will restrict your ability to develop good ramification. Choose which parts to keep carefully with that in mind. It is often better to step backwards initially in order to produce a better result later.
JM are also very prone to reverse taper because they love to produce masses of shoots at nodes which will cause local swelling. Be diligent in reducing clusters of shoots and branches down to 1 or 2 at any junction. Also see previous comment about long internodes and ramification.

Make some decisions now about whether you want to try for a less impressive, quick bonsai or a national show winner.
Also think about what shape/style you'd like to develop and we'll try to help further.

 

[Bonsaipadawan]

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[Bonsaipadawan]

There are many different approaches to developing bonsai and most will end up with a reasonable bonsai. Some different approaches depend on what size and standard of bonsai you are aiming for.
To develop thicker trunk, impressive bonsai the usual approaches are regular grow and chop cycles either in larger containers or in the ground.
For a smaller, generic bonsai a few grow and prune cycles should develop a reasonable canopy but won't increase trunk thickness much.

Japanese maples look great but can be challenging to develop good bonsai.
Like most JM pre-bonsai yours appears to have long internodes. Buds only ever come from nodes so long internodes will restrict your ability to develop good ramification. Choose which parts to keep carefully with that in mind. It is often better to step backwards initially in order to produce a better result later.
JM are also very prone to reverse taper because they love to produce masses of shoots at nodes which will cause local swelling. Be diligent in reducing clusters of shoots and branches down to 1 or 2 at any junction. Also see previous comment about long internodes and ramification.

Make some decisions now about whether you want to try for a less impressive, quick bonsai or a national show winner.
Also think about what shape/style you'd like to develop and we'll try to help further.

Thank you for all your advice thus far!



I would love a national show type of specimen someday but I have no idea if I am capable of keeping up with such a specimen or even creating one only being a year or so into my practice of bonsai care and development.



I also don't mind something in-between show bonsai and less impressive bonsai. I would like to keep my options open for this specimen. I have 3 other maples so to a degree I feel explaining how to achieve both goals would be very beneficial for me.

Since I have 5 maples I could take 2 or 3 and attempt to make them into impressive bonsai. One if my maples I know I'd like to keep small so either way I'd love to hear what I could do for the others as well as this one in particular. I guess this was a long winded explanation to why I'd like to know both show stopper and semi quick bonsai growing methods

 

[Shibui]

I think most people want a show stopping bonsai but few are prepared to invest 10-20 years to grow it from small trees.

There are many approaches but I prefer to grow in the ground and chop in yearly or 2 yearly cycles - longer if you keep it in a pot. Grow adds thickness to the trunk. Chop adds taper and movement to the trunk and then to branches. The important thing with JM is don't keep long internodes even if the branch is in a great place or you really want that extension. Cutting off potential useful parts is hard but necessary to get best results. When trunk is getting close to desired thickness transfer to a grow pot so final stages of branching and ramification can be controlled better. More wiring in the final stages to get smaller structure shaped.

For quicker but less impressive results Use grow and chop in a larger training pot. Again remove any long internodes and only retain shoots with short internodes that will enable branching at desirable locations. This may mean removing almost all spring shoots. Second, summer shoots are often less vigorous with shorter internodes that can be used in the structure. Most branches will be directed by selective pruning but wire any that look good but grow in wrong direction.

For quickest and least impressive bonsai just grow and cut back regularly until you have achieved a spreading canopy.

Those are the basics but there is a huge range of details. Far too many for a post like this so you will have to start out and work in steps as the trees develop.

 

[sorce]

I have no idea if I am capable of keeping up with such a specimen or even creating one

You are, so close them options.

I hope most of this got mistranslated in this world of internetual communication, cuz it kinda sounds like you are asking for directions on how to do stuff half assed.
In NYC, this can be learned by looking out the window!

Only shoot for excellence, there will be plenty of shit to burn along the way without trying for it.

Sorce

 

[Bonsaipadawan]

You are, so close them options.

I hope most of this got mistranslated in this world of internetual communication, cuz it kinda sounds like you are asking for directions on how to do stuff half assed.
In NYC, this can be learned by looking out the window!

Only shoot for excellence, there will be plenty of shit to burn along the way without trying for it.

Sorce

My comment was in reaction to someone asking if I wanted a national show style tree, a quick or a quick and easy tree. My response is id love to know how to do both.
I don't want to half ass anything
I am happy with a small tree, a medium and a large tree and since I have 5 maple specimens to work with I think it would be good to learn how to make them all!

 

[sorce]

There is no both! Only good and half assed!

a quick or a quick and easy tree.

A cracked off stem has potential, it's slow.

Something moving into "refinement" is fast.

There is everything in between.

The beginning should determine the "speed", not the end.

There is no end. At least not for us.

Time is man made.

Sorce

 

[Bonsaipadawan]

There is no both! Only good and half assed!



A cracked off stem has potential, it's slow.

Something moving into "refinement" is fast.

There is everything in between.

The beginning should determine the "speed", not the end.

There is no end. At least not for us.

Time is man made.

Sorce

I am not looking to do anything half assed or fast really. My mention of fast or quick was based off of another person's comment. So I was responding to them asking for them to explain both methods they mentioned.
If my goal is a medium sized tree or small tree I'd imagine the process is going to be faster than a large tree of high quality.

At this point I am very open to all tips on how to improve my current tree. I am okay with it being a medium to small sized maple. I am looking for help in understanding development of the tree.
Id like to know what are the next steps towards further developing the tree or just in general, when you look at the tree what would you personally do with it?

 

[sorce]

If I try to look at the tree, I get caught up in that building eating that other building wondering what the eff is going on there!?

The ultimate "quick" is creating a tree of the smallest possible size that fits the smallest possible leaf size.

Since growing is built in, you can always move up in size.

But beginning with a size in mind is ....I don't wanna say foolish, though it is....it's binding. We should live free with no bounds, this allows us to hear the tree.

when you look at the tree what would you personally do with it?

Create taper and prune for good branch structure, the tree wants to do everything else itself, ie, look pretty, fill gaps, etc.

I would also vow to never spray it or give it chemical fertilizer, they get really obedient when you keep that promise.

Sorce

 

[Bonsaipadawan]

If I try to look at the tree, I get caught up in that building eating that other building wondering what the eff is going on there!?

The ultimate "quick" is creating a tree of the smallest possible size that fits the smallest possible leaf size.

Since growing is built in, you can always move up in size.

But beginning with a size in mind is ....I don't wanna say foolish, though it is....it's binding. We should live free with no bounds, this allows us to hear the tree.



Create taper and prune for good branch structure, the tree wants to do everything else itself, ie, look pretty, fill gaps, etc.

I would also vow to never spray it or give it chemical fertilizer, they get really obedient when you keep that promise.

Sorce

Is keeping size in mind actually foolish? Aren't there many categories of bonsai some of which are classified by size? Though I do like the sentiments of what you are saying time allow the tree to kind if tell the bonsai practitioner what to do with it.

I am noticing some swelling st the top of the trunk where all the larger upward growing branches are coming from and I fear reverse taper so I am wondering if I should remove some of those stronger branches!?
The issue is with this particular tree I am unsure of how best to prune it.

Lololol the building scenario is even more interesting if I show you the full view. Nyc can be a weird place for buildings. It's a bunch of pretty old buildings, which had my row of attached homes built right next to/ connected too. I think the brick building was built in the early 1900s like 1920 and the buildings I am in are around 1960s or later.

Hopefully someday I can move myself and my bonsai to a prettier location. Having the bonsai makes my all stone and concrete surroundings feel a little nicer.

So far I've veen using sumo cakes and a fish based fertilizer to fertilize. If I end up with pests I spray either with soapy water or if it's like a really bad infestation I will use some actual pest killer like insecticidal soap.

 

[dbonsaiw]

What should I be doing, should I be doing any pruning to maybe cause some ramifications or like bud pinching?

Maybe some wiring? I am quite new to bonsai and most of my experience styling so far is with junipers.

What you should be doing now will depend on what kind of tree of you want to develop. Bonsai is artistic expression, and like all artistic expression there is the subject and there is medium. A painter can paint a tree (subject) with oil on canvas (medium). The artist decides where every feature of the tree goes/looks - nothing happens by accident. Same for bonsai, except that the tree (subject) is made from the medium of a tree. First in thought, last in action - such is the nature of the bonsai tree. So first step is to decide what you want the end product to look like generally and then start developing towards that goal.

Bonsai are built bottom up. So, in the correct season, I would start by bare rooting the tree, pruning the roots back and repotting into proper substrate. Regardless of size/style, nebari development will be essential to the final product. At every repot, you will continue to work the roots. Before you really think about anything else, you need a game plan for your trunk. Thickness, movement and taper are the 3 elements you should be considering. When folks here discuss using "better material", they are really referring to working with a trunk that is closer to the desired end product. For example, I can make my stick straight seedling into just about anything given enough time. But that maty be a very long time depending on what I want to develop. If I start with something that already has some size, taper, and movement, I am that much further along the process. If thickness, movement and taper are not satisfactory to you, you will need to develop these further. Thickness through free growth. Movement and taper through pruning and regrowing.

As for branch development and all that goes with that, you may be jumping the gun a bit. When developing thickness, movement and taper, I generally view the branches as nothing more than fuel for the tree I am growing. The branches are there to grow leaves to power photosynthesis and feed my tree while I develop the trunk. Only once I'm further along with the trunk do the branches become an aesthetic feature of the tree that get wired etc.

 

[sorce]

allow the tree to kind if tell the bonsai practitioner what to do with it.

That's it.

We can't really know know what is going to happen, like a square peg in a round hole except the square peg is actually growing too, better to just let it be a square peg.

I think a lot of excellence is lost because people wish to have a certain thing, but what's worse is...we're all addicted, all spent a little something on a little something we probably shouldn't have once, or worse!
Yet we can't say, "the round peg will eventually come". Like we're going to stop acquiring trees.

Less playing "God", more seeing the God present in the tree and respecting that.

Thanks for obliging my building curiosity!

Sorce

 

[Wulfskaar]

Less playing "God", more seeing the God present in the tree and respecting that.

Sorce