Potting nursery stock

[colley614]

Hey all,

I went to the nursery today and picked up a couple of trees. I bought an English Yew and Juniper chinensis. Both trees are between 2-3 feet and I bought them hoping to get them styled. However, looking thoroughly at the Yew I feel that a good summer of growth would benefit the tree. I was thinking of repotting both trees in training pots as well as my ficus.

I'm just wondering what size training pots I should look at getting. I have a funny feeling that there is something going on in the soil that is impacting the Yew and have an urge to get it into some bonsai substrate. I'm just wondering how I work out the required pot size?

 

[0soyoung]

You want a training pot that is about one-third the depth of the current pot wider than the current pot. Suppose the nursery pot is 8 inches in diameter and 12 inches deep. Your training pot ought to be about 8 + 12/3 = 8 + 4 = 12 inches in diameter.

The basic thing you are going to do is to knock off the plastic nursery pot. Then, you will cut off the bottom half to two-thirds of that blob of soil and roots. After that you will wash and comb out the nursery soil, making the roots spread out radially - cut off heavy/stiff roots that insist on going downward. This 'wheel' of roots should have a diameter somewhat smaller than the training pot. Flip the new training pot over (so that it is upside down), sit your tree atop it and use the base as a template for pruning the root tips - this will leave a little room to grow after you've flipped the pot back upright and put the tree in it on a bit of substrate.

But, before you dive headlong in to doing this, you need to decide if you are going to do the full bare rooting I described or be a bit more conservative and only wash the nursery dirt out of only one side of the trunk (known as half bare rooting or HBR). But otherwise, the rules of thumb are pretty much the same, just loosen the roots from the surface of the root ball half you're not cleaning during this repot. If the tree does well this year, you do the other half next spring.

 

[Shibui]

There is no formula for choosing a pot size. Bonsai do not really need to be in a shallow training pot but if you can find something medium shallow that looks good and encourages shallower roots. Don't go too shallow for a start because they can be very hard to look after in summer. 4" or 10 cm is plenty shallow enough and a little deeper would probably be safer to start with.
Best not to go too large in one go. Small trees do not seem to do well in huge pots so best to go up one or 2 pot sizes when you pot on.
Osoyoung's calculations actually gives you a pot size with less volume. I'd go a little larger because you want the trees to get a good summer of growth so maybe add a bit more diameter or depth or both. You may get that in the smaller pot with fresh mix and good care but we normally talk about larger pots for better growth.

 

[colley614]

Thanks for the advice guys. I was thinking about this a lot yesterday. The trees I have, although I bought them to shape now, the Yew looks like a summer of vigorous growth would really make it look awesome. The Juniper, I sat down and studied the trunk and there is loads of movement. There is a trunk and 2 large branches about 1/3 the way up. If I wired the thickest and Jinned the other 2 I think it would look stunning. Plus I think with a little wiring I could a fairly tall informal upright with this tree. I feel if I wired it into shape and gave it a good summer of ferts and watering the trunk would be ready for branches to set in location.

Edit: sorry, I went on a ramble. The point I'm trying to convey is that both trees were bought to be styled straight away but after closer inspection I feel that the trees naturally want to be bigger bonsai than I initially planned, especially the juniper. It has all the structure in place and if I wired the trunk and thickened it slightly it would be amazing.

The question I was thinking but didn't ask was. Bearing this in mind, do I repot this year? I'm under the assumption that if I want to grow a tree out I go up a pot size but once the initial styling is done and the tree has its basic shape I start reducing the root into a smaller pot. Is this right? I was thinking of going up a pot size, getting rid of a lot of the soil and getting them in a good bonsai substrate as I'm under the impression this will stimulate growth as I will be able to water and fertilise better.

 

[sorce]

Growing out a Yew isn't a fools errand.

Growing out a Yew for bonsai is a fools errand!

Grow it out to trade it for something better from a yard.

Your odds are better at getting a bitching tree this way before growing one into something more special than what you haven't found yet!

Which is to say, if you can Imagine a nicer tree than what that can be, it's out there to trade.

Hell, I even bet you already know where this unfound yew is. Give it a pondering.

As for the box... Have many.

Sorce

 

[colley614]

Growing out a Yew isn't a fools errand.

Growing out a Yew for bonsai is a fools errand!

Grow it out to trade it for something better from a yard.

Your odds are better at getting a bitching tree this way before growing one into something more special than what you haven't found yet!

Which is to say, if you can Imagine a nicer tree than what that can be, it's out there to trade.

Hell, I even bet you already know where this unfound yew is. Give it a pondering.

As for the box... Have many.

Sorce

I went to the nursery with your advice in mind. 'The tree will tell you what to do based on its past.' With that in mind I picked the Yew based on the movement of the trunk and how thick and robust it is.

When I say I want to give the tree a years growth. It's not to grow it on to add structure or anything. I was looking at the tree last night and something was telling me not to start cutting but instead it would benefit from a good summers care to add health and vigour to the tree. The tree doesn't look sick or anything.

 

[TomB]

I have a funny feeling that there is something going on in the soil that is impacting the Yew

Garden centre yews are very often infested with vine weevil larvae. Use a treatment like https://www.amazon.co.uk/BugClear-U...ywords=vine+weevil&qid=1582736685&sr=8-5&th=1 or nematodes if you prefer an organic solution. Yews usually sulk for a while after repotting, so that probably won't give you the enhanced vigour you are looking for in the short term.

 

[colley614]

Garden centre yews are very often infested with vine weevil larvae. Use a treatment like https://www.amazon.co.uk/BugClear-Ultra-Weevil-Killer-Concentrate/dp/B00B5WKUN4/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=vine+weevil&qid=1582736685&sr=8-5&th=1 or nematodes if you prefer an organic solution. Yews usually sulk for a while after repotting, so that probably won't give you the enhanced vigour you are looking for in the short term.

I think there is some spider mite on it. Little white spiders running up and down the trunk?

 

[TomB]

Sounds like spiders. Spider mites are typically brown or red and much smaller.

 

[colley614]

Well, after spending the day looking at the two trees I decided that I was making excuses not to shape them so I just decided to get it done. I'm really happy with the results. The Yew I've gone with an upright and the juniper is an informal upright, it's a bit of an s shape but that's what the trunk was doing I've just exaggerated it a little. I'm considering taking the apex off the Juniper and growing a new one.

When is the best time to repot the two trees?

 

[Jorow99]

After you observe how the tree responds to the work you just did

 

[Rodrigo]

Any way you can post pictures of both trees styled?

 

[Japonicus]

When is the best time to repot the two trees?

Once growth is underway next Spring if they’ve not taken a set back this year.
My Japanese yew did not sulk after bare rooting from nursery can into bonsai soil
in one go of it last year, but I did not prune the foliage either. I opened the foliage in
a COUPLE of spots to see the trunk and let air through, early April, and bare rooted
it end of July. It shed one little lower twig over Winter so far. Still no pruning till after
growth is active for me, and still observing for vigour to determine if I should prune
and style, or let it fill out more.the rest of the year.

 

[Japonicus]

When you do repot, like @sorce said, have several options size wise
because you won’t be on a mathematical formula. You’ll be matching the home to the roots
+ a little maybe...after you’re done reducing them and teasing them out.

Last year I dug a maple in ground 10 years or so. I went too Lowe’s 1st and bought a 15g
cedar pot for patio plantings. It was deep enough, volume was good, but after I finished reducing
the roots the most I could, it simply did not fit. I had to build one that took 12 gallons of soil
to fill. Then there’s been a lot of times I said I’m going to put this nursery stock in this pot
then when I was done with the roots, the pot was a size of 2, too big, so having options is best.

 

[colley614]

Any way you can post pictures of both trees styled?

I will try tomorrow.

 

[colley614]

When you do repot, like @sorce said, have several options size wise
because you won’t be on a mathematical formula. You’ll be matching the home to the roots
+ a little maybe...after you’re done reducing them and teasing them out.

Last year I dug a maple in ground 10 years or so. I went too Lowe’s 1st and bought a 15g
cedar pot for patio plantings. It was deep enough, volume was good, but after I finished reducing
the roots the most I could, it simply did not fit. I had to build one that took 12 gallons of soil
to fill. Then there’s been a lot of times I said I’m going to put this nursery stock in this pot
then when I was done with the roots, the pot was a size of 2, too big, so having options is best.

I see, so the best course of action is to get some vigorous growth in the trees first. I was thinking that getting the trees out of the nursery soil and into some proper substrate would be best. I have some grow more 7 7 7 fertiliser ready but the instructions are hard to gauge as they say hand full per square metre and the pots are very small compared to a square metre. I was thinking of maybe using a liquid fertiliser high in nitrogen weekly and then the balanced mixture 4 weekly as instructed for a little while until they start growing vigorously and then just using the 7 7 7 once they're growing well.

 

[sorce]

I see, so the best course of action is to get some vigorous growth in the trees first. I was thinking that getting the trees out of the nursery soil and into some proper substrate would be best. I have some grow more 7 7 7 fertiliser ready but the instructions are hard to gauge as they say hand full per square metre and the pots are very small compared to a square metre. I was thinking of maybe using a liquid fertiliser high in nitrogen weekly and then the balanced mixture 4 weekly as instructed for a little while until they start growing vigorously and then just using the 7 7 7 once they're growing well.

The might as well call that stuff,

666 "just throw your trees to Satan!".

Many people listen to the people who use it all the time.

I listen to the trees it has killed.

Sorce

 

[colley614]

The might as well call that stuff,

666 "just throw your trees to Satan!".

Many people listen to the people who use it all the time.

I listen to the trees it has killed.

Sorce

I didn't know it killed trees. I was under the impression it was a good mixture for trees?

 

[sorce]

I didn't know it killed trees. I was under the impression it was a good mixture for trees?

It might not be what I was thinking, just felt like a little dramatism would make you do good research before using it!

You got balls....

If you use this garbage. Time-released, green balls. Let's explore side A of fresh Nursery Mugo. Mmmmm! Lets see what happens when some balls get in the side of the pot and the sun heats them so that they all open at once! Black Death! Yuck! So before these over the good side open....and...

www.bonsainut.com

I don't trust ....many things.

Sorce

 

[colley614]

It might not be what I was thinking, just felt like a little dramatism would make you do good research before using it!

You got balls....

If you use this garbage. Time-released, green balls. Let's explore side A of fresh Nursery Mugo. Mmmmm! Lets see what happens when some balls get in the side of the pot and the sun heats them so that they all open at once! Black Death! Yuck! So before these over the good side open....and...

www.bonsainut.com

I don't trust ....many things.

Sorce

Ah, good shout! The stuff I'm using is small granules. Not those weird ball things. I won't be using them.