Potting collected trees questions

[maroun.c]

Will be collecting few trees, I'm limiting it to 4-5 small pines to make sure I can keep them alive and not kill larger/nicer trees.
As said It'll be small pines so wondering about the following:
-mefia to use, I've seen the following used from search on the forum and videos:
-Pine bark and composted line bark
-Sand
-Pumice
-organic potting soil
-peat moss
-saw dust
-Does the preference change for conifers and which would you use
-any grain size preference for collected trees and does it change with type of tree and size
-Pot size I've seen larger pots recommended for collection but doesn't that mean another aggressive root work 2-3 years down the line ? Do I just pot in what fits the rootball.
-do you keep soil that comes with roots in collection or try to cleanup as much as possible ?
Thanks

 

[Shibui]

The only wild pines I have access to are P. radiata.
I know that others do things very different but I still have good success with the few pines I take.
Standard soil mix - open, large particle composted pine bark/ sand mix. Exactly the same as all my other trees. This saves having to remember to water and manage some pots differently.
I also prune roots to fit the pots I feel are right for the trunks for the reasons you've outlined above. More than 90% of new roots seem to grow from the cut ends of roots so future root reduction will remove most of the roots again at a time when the tree has grown new branches and increased foliage.
I remove most of the field soil before moving to a pot. So many horror stories of field soil causing root rot later why would you risk that? Don't wash roots of conifers but most come from areas where much of the soil just drops off without damaging the roots. Enough soil and fungi will still be on the roots to restart good fungal growth in the pots. If soil is tight I still break off whatever will come away without damaging roots.

I know this is totally different from what many others do when collecting. Just shows that trees will survive a range of different techniques and conditions. You may need to try some different methods and see what works better in your conditions with the species you are collecting.

 

[ShadyStump]

Some pines react better than others to being transplanted. You are right to try smaller less valuable trees first. It took me a long time to learn that lesson.
You will have to learn what care the pines you collect need. I know that as a general rule pines don't like being bare rooted, but some don't deal well with being moved at all. That's why many people keep the soil that comes in the root ball. If the soil is too soft and just falls away, I still recommend trying to keep some to mix in your potting substrate so there's something familiar for the tree. I feel like it helps the tree adapt to life in a pot better.
If you can take the tree directly from the ground to the pot, I would suggest doing that so there's less chance of damaging the roots. Only cut off the roots you absolutely have to to get it in the pot. Pines survive on their roots.
If you know what species, there may be someone who has more information.

 

[PonderingSage:]

I use pumice and try to get it into the smallest box possible, so that it dose not stay too wet. I sift to 1/8 or 1/4”

 

[rockm]

Will be collecting few trees, I'm limiting it to 4-5 small pines to make sure I can keep them alive and not kill larger/nicer trees.
As said It'll be small pines so wondering about the following:
-mefia to use, I've seen the following used from search on the forum and videos:
-Pine bark and composted line bark
-Sand
-Pumice
-organic potting soil
-peat moss
-saw dust
-Does the preference change for conifers and which would you use
-any grain size preference for collected trees and does it change with type of tree and size
-Pot size I've seen larger pots recommended for collection but doesn't that mean another aggressive root work 2-3 years down the line ? Do I just pot in what fits the rootball.
-do you keep soil that comes with roots in collection or try to cleanup as much as possible ?
Thanks

All of these:

Sand
organic potting soil
peat moss
saw dust

are very bad soil ingredients. Sand--if you're using builder or playground sand--is far too fine and slows or complicates drainage. Organic potting soil--or most any kind of prepared potting soil--clogs drainage up and/or sheds water if allowed to dry out. It is hard to rewet, once it has dried.

Same for peat moss and saw dust.

Basic bonsai soil (which is completely adequate for collected trees) is not "dirt" To beginners, it mostly looks like gravel. It consists of hard particles that don't break down, keep soil aerated with sharp angles and retain moisture that is gradually released. Typical ingredients are pumice, lava, haydite(expanded shale), crushed granite, and sharp sand (larger particles as in swimming pool filter sand, or horticultural (or sharp) sand.

Depending on what you're collecting, some "organic ingredients that come in large particle sizes--composted, sifted pine bark, baby orchid bark, can also be used. Deciduous trees tend to like a bit of organic material in their mix (30 percent or so), while conifers prefer a leaner mix with no organics.

To get an idea of what decent bonsai soil look like, go here and look at the pictures:

Superfly Bonsai Pre-Mixed Soil

Here at Superfly Bonsai we pride ourselves on our soil mixes. Superfly Bonsai was actually started by providing premium soil mixes on the web. We use only the finest ingredients from around the world to make a mix that is ideal for your bonsai. If you are looking for the best domestic bonsai...

www.superflybonsai.com

To get an idea of what soil components can be go here:

Bonsai Substrates

BONSAI SUBSTRATES Soil is one of the most critical elements needed for the health and strength of your bonsai. The right soil must supply your tree with nutrients, promote proper drainage and water retention, and allow proper aeration to roots. Superfly Bonsai offers a wide variety of bonsai...

www.superflybonsai.com

Of course you may not be able to get all these things, but the pics will give you an idea of what actual bonsai soil looks like. Most people looking to make their own soils improvise with what's available to them. I've used crushed brick, swimming pool filter sand and crushed granite chicken grit for ingredients over the years...

The bottom line for bonsai soil is DRAINAGE and durability. Getting there can be done many ways. Best way to get there is to ask someone IN YOUR LOCAL CLIMATE who successfully keeps bonsai what they're using...

 

[RKatzin]

I use mostly pumice for newly collected material and I go with the largest container necessary to be able to get a full spread of the roots and have about an inch perimeter around the edges. Once the tree is in obvious full recovery the roots are pruned back to fit a more appropriate pot.
This is the most essential part of collection and must not be neglected, hastened or abbreviated. Figure a good three years of ICU treatment for conifers before you go at them again. The idea is not only alive, but flourishing and robust.
Give the collected trees time and don't be dissuaded by false starts and flushes. Trees will usually do at least a light flush the first season and you think, oh boy, it's digging in and coming on. But it's just running on it's reserves and the second season is a total disappointment as the tree sulks through the healing year and rebuilds reserves. Then the third season you see a return to vitality and upwardly mobile growth. Let it coast through the season in full swing and begin the downsizing and training the following spring.

 

[maroun.c]

Thanks for all the replies. Will go with pumice, lava and clay balls. Still considering pine bark as all I can find is large pieces of pine bark which I have to break down to small pieces and then most say it needs to be composted to avoid sucking humidity and nutrients and I don't have time to compost it so unless I find composted pine bark I won't be using it.
Should collect the trees in few days and hopefully it'll go fine.