Pop ready seedlings into cloning machine awhile?

[777thSunRay]

So I'm planning to grow lots of seeds. @sorce told me that trees grown from seeds are not as vigorous or sturdy, to paraphrase

So I'm thinking I might have a solution. When a seedling is ready to be transplanted from the seeding tray, suppose I pop them into a cloning machine for awhile, to really get their roots going? What do folks think? And other ideas welcome.

 

[Shibui]

Not sure if you understood @sorce ramblings correctly as there's no context to the original discussion here. I know I often have trouble following some of his theories. I can think of a couple of specific cases where seedlings are not vigorous but those are exceptions.
I certainly DO NOT believe that seedlings are less vigorous. In many cases just the opposite.
Consider that most of the world's natural forests are seed grown trees. They have been doing it very well for millions of years without the aid of a cloning machine.

Seedling Japanese maples are usually stronger than most of the selected cultivars that are grown as landscape trees with the exception of the weeping maples where seedlings are very weak.

As growing from seed varies quite a lot from one species to another perhaps it would be better to list the species you are intending to grow so we can discuss any similarities or differences?

 

[sorce]

I recently 'd myself into this idea that sterile soil leads to no good bacteria on seedlings, which makes them susceptible to disease say Dr. Elaine.

Perhaps that's the rambling?

Hey, I noticed I only got one of those @'s!

Don't mean to ignore!

I'm fully convinced it's true.

I would speak with @cmeg1 about cloners, as he is experienced and cares of microbiology.

I reckon I would use it, but probably for twice as long, outdoors, and leaving a much thinner plane of roots than what may be normal (cutting more off, hence twice as long).

Some time in a future pot shaped basket would still be helpful (read necessary in every endeavor) to best keep any roots from becoming overly thick.

Of course, if the probability of roots becoming to large throughout growout is greater than any trees difficulty to be airlayered, I would completely ignore the original roots in favor of a future airlayer.

I'd rather play 1/100 odds before having a poo nebari.
And by "poo" I mean, roots out of proportion with design, which IMO, is 9/10!
It's subtle.

Sorce

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I recently 'd myself into this idea that sterile soil leads to no good bacteria on seedlings, which makes them susceptible to disease say Dr. Elaine.

I think you're maybe hyperfocusing on parts of what's written and missing the context and subcontext, the stuff between the lines.
Sterile soils do not exist in reality once they're exposed to air. Period. See if you know a microbiologist, or someone that works in the food industry or something that needs quality controls; they'll explain to you how difficult it is to keep microbes out. In the past I've used sterile gloves inside a sterile flow hood that was inside a sterile room that itself was in a sterile building, then washed those gloves with sterilized bleach and then with sterilized alcohol and still got microbes from my belly button (covered with two layers of sterilized clothes) on an agar plate.. Somehow against the air flow.

The idea from said doctor is that the right mix of bacteria and fungi and sources of carbon can work wonders for our plants. Seeds naturally hold these microbes from their parent trees, at least a part of them. A scoop of good dirt can inoculate a whole lot and a bit of compost tea can do wonders. These microbes grow like wildfire.
The finnicky part is that there's two sides of the same medal with "sterile" soils: they can be a breeding ground of bad stuff, or a breeding ground of good stuff. You can dump a gazillion of the good guys on a soil but if the conditions aren't right, they'll die. The opposite is also true: you can dump a gazillion of the bad guys on a soil but if the conditions aren't right, they'll die too. My cuttings bring their own microbiome with them to 'empty' soils.

I know the brits use their pro carbon stuff to keep internodes short, increase budding and reduce elongating growth. That's good. If you intend to do just that. If you want rapid growth, that stuff aint what you'd be looking for.
As for the disease part.. I don't know man. I keep a healthy mix of microbes in the backyard but it's not that everyone who doesn't is constantly fighting off disease all the time. And maybe, maybe a lil disease here and there is good for us. Not everything needs to survive. Nature is like that and so is potted culture. If a plant can't overcome disease on its own, we'll either be keeping it alive with antibiotics or sprays, or we'll constantly have to baby the thing with good microbes until we give up. Same as it is for plants, goes for microbes more or less: if we can't provide the right conditions, they'll never thrive/flourish on their own and we'll have to force them into our soils time after time again. That's not a balanced system, that's a death trap. If your soil becomes the proverbial microbial tar pit.. Then what?
Mirai is a big fan of Dr. Elaine. I am too. But I'm also a realist in the sense that if those microbes don't stick.. I have two options: continue to try and force them in the soil, or go with the known route that's less ideal and just accept that I'll be combating some issues which I'm perfectly equiped to combat. Effort vs. reward.

Difficult subject for sure! Lots of unanswered questions!