Pond basket sizing, in ground

[The Warm Canuck]

Good day,

I'm about to purchase some pond baskets, all that I can find are 8" round by 5" deep. I plan on putting these in a grow bed.

I'm going to be putting some small finger thick trees in them, I'd rather put them in a smaller size pot but I can't ind anything smaller. But since they'll be growing these baskets in the a grow bed, does the oversized pot really matter? It seems to me that it's not different than just growing a tree in the ground with no pot, thus the size not really mattering.

Thought?

 

[penumbra]

Good day,

I'm about to purchase some pond baskets, all that I can find are 8" round by 5" deep. I plan on putting these in a grow bed.

I'm going to be putting some small finger thick trees in them, I'd rather put them in a smaller size pot but I can't ind anything smaller. But since they'll be growing these baskets in the a grow bed, does the oversized pot really matter? It seems to me that it's not different than just growing a tree in the ground with no pot, thus the size not really mattering.

Thought?

Look on Amazon. They have 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 13 inch pond baskets.
What kind of trees are you planting?

 

[n8]

I'm unclear on why you are putting them in a pond basket in the ground. If they're in a grow bed, I wouldn't be using a pot/basket at all.

I use pond baskets/colanders when I want root control. You'll just have to dig out the baskets and interweaved roots when you're ready, which requires twice the effort.

 

[penumbra]

A grow bed, as op indicates, is vastly different than in ground and pond baskets are appropriate. I have been doing it for years. They take a fraction of the time to harvest and you are not likely to destroy the roots closer to the plant like you would without the basket or grow bag, which is also very good.

 

[n8]

Fair enough! Thanks for the info.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Skip the baskets.

 

[Newish in Oregon]

I don't know if you have Home Depot in Canada nor if they'll ship to you [home shipment would be free for me] but if you end up using baskets here's one option https://www.homedepot.com/p/BECKETT-10-in-x-10-in-Plastic-Water-Garden-Basket-PBS1010/100187980?. I have several trees in Beckett 7071310; this appears to be a replacement for that model number. I have no idea what changed

 

[Shibui]

I'm going to be putting some small finger thick trees in them, I'd rather put them in a smaller size pot but I can't ind anything smaller. But since they'll be growing these baskets in the a grow bed, does the oversized pot really matter? It seems to me that it's not different than just growing a tree in the ground with no pot, thus the size not really mattering.

If a large pond basket is effectively the same as growing in the ground with no pot what's the point of the basket? Start with well pruned roots and root prune every couple of years for great results.

A grow bed, as op indicates, is vastly different than in ground

Not sure I understand the difference. Maybe others understand the terms differently but I see grow bed and in ground as very similar.

 

[penumbra]

Skip the baskets.

Or don't.

I don't know if you have Home Depot in Canada nor if they'll ship to you [home shipment would be free for me] but if you end up using baskets here's one option https://www.homedepot.com/p/BECKETT-10-in-x-10-in-Plastic-Water-Garden-Basket-PBS1010/100187980?. I have several trees in Beckett 7071310; this appears to be a replacement for that model number. I have no idea what changed

I have several of these. They are a good price and high quality. They last for years.

If a large pond basket is effectively the same as growing in the ground with no pot what's the point of the basket? Start with well pruned roots and root prune every couple of years for great results.

Much easier harvest and less work in the long run.

Not sure I understand the difference. Maybe others understand the terms differently but I see grow bed and in ground as very similar.

Grow beds in my case do not have soil but have a grow mix. My grow mix varies from bed to bed.

It seems to me that a lot of people who comment negatively on certain things have very little or no personal experience with those things. I have tried baskets, bags and bare ground planting for bonsai development and I find there is a place for all of them in my life. I actually first used grow bags over 30 years ago and I have some pond baskets that are over 20 years old and still holding up. I just dug some cherries that were in the ground in soil for the past 3 years. They have decent roots but required the pruning of many large lateral roots that were tangled with the roots of the adjacent plants. The plants in baskets were more contained with finer root ramification. The plants in bags were even more so. Both of these methods allow me to plant more plants in a smaller area than bare ground planting. Its hard to work a spade between plants if planted side by side in the ground without affecting adjacent plants. With baskets I simply slide the spade down the outside of the basket and lift it out.
If in doubt and if you like to experiment, you have nothing to lose by trying alternate methods. I sure am glad I did.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

I am using pond baskets in a grow box. I'm not asking

Look on Amazon. They have 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 13 inch pond baskets.
What kind of trees are you planting?

Here in Canada we don't have those options. The smallest I can get is 8" round by 5" deep. So, i'm wondering if there's dangers to overpotting, small sapplings? Or because it's in the ground does it not really matter?

I'll be planting a bunch of different trees. Pretty well anything in early development, JM's, Scott's pine, Mugo Pine. I'd also like to split pot my tropicals into the baskets and put them in the ground for the growing season, than pull them out at the end of the season, split pot back; bring them back inside,

 

[The Warm Canuck]

Skip the baske

Or don't.

I have several of these. They are a good price and high quality. They last for years.

Much easier harvest and less work in the long run.

Grow beds in my case do not have soil but have a grow mix. My grow mix varies from bed to bed.

It seems to me that a lot of people who comment negatively on certain things have very little or no personal experience with those things. I have tried baskets, bags and bare ground planting for bonsai development and I find there is a place for all of them in my life. I actually first used grow bags over 30 years ago and I have some pond baskets that are over 20 years old and still holding up. I just dug some cherries that were in the ground in soil for the past 3 years. They have decent roots but required the pruning of many large lateral roots that were tangled with the roots of the adjacent plants. The plants in baskets were more contained with finer root ramification. The plants in bags were even more so. Both of these methods allow me to plant more plants in a smaller area than bare ground planting. Its hard to work a spade between plants if planted side by side in the ground without affecting adjacent plants. With baskets I simply slide the spade down the outside of the basket and lift it out.
If in doubt and if you like to experiment, you have nothing to lose by trying alternate methods. I sure am glad I did.

Yes, many nursery growers use this method. I know @River's Edge uses it with great success. However, his beds are all Bonsai soil and here on the east side of Canada, that would cost more than my house! haha.

I think from another post that you said you just use mulch for your beds? I'm planning on building a 4'x8' raised grow bed, but I don't really want to fill it with garden soil, as it is a little pricey and it involves a lot of weeding. Mulch would be a much better option.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

I don't know if you have Home Depot in Canada nor if they'll ship to you [home shipment would be free for me] but if you end up using baskets here's one option https://www.homedepot.com/p/BECKETT-10-in-x-10-in-Plastic-Water-Garden-Basket-PBS1010/100187980?. I have several trees in Beckett 7071310; this appears to be a replacement for that model number. I have no idea what changed

No stock in Canada

 

[BrianBay9]

Try a local hydroponics shop. The cannabis guys are usually well stocked.

 

[Maiden69]

One thing I can add is that depending on the tree, a pond basket will not hold the roots at all. I moved most of my trees from pond baskets to Rootpouch bags. They were sitting in the ground over and covered on the sides by mulch over winter last year. 3 of them broke through the pond basket and had a tap root as thick as the trunk with roots already breaking the holes of the basket. A Yoshino cherry tree, a trident and a bald cypress. I guess dwarf varieties could be ok, or trees with slow root development.

 

[River's Edge]

No stock in Canada

Laguna brand pond baskets are Canadian, company based in Montreal. They stand up very well, get your local pet shop, aquarium shop to order a case for you. Or buy them online from Rolf C Hagen, ltd.
For your grow beds use pumice, mulch is next to useless for Bonsai purposes as a growing media. Works well as an insulator or ground covering to prevent desiccation and cut down on weeds.

Pick a substrate that drains well and has similar particle size with a suitable shape to provide air space and moisture retention. Add fir bark if needed in suitable size and shape. ( various types and sizes of turkey grit can be explored)

 

[Maiden69]

For your grow beds use pumice, mulch is next to useless for Bonsai purposes as a growing media. Works well as an insulator or ground covering to prevent desiccation and cut down on weeds.

Frank, if you don't have pumice available (Central Texas) what would you use? I can't find any pumice or lava in bulk quantities. I have researched a few websites that ship yards, and right now they are not even quoting the freight because of the lack of drivers. I thought about buying NAPA DE and using that, or checking out if there is a baseball field supplier that sells turface in my area. I think the NAPA DE would be way cheaper than buying 100ea 3 gal size pumice bags for my beds.

Right now I am using pine bark to retain moisture around the bags. One other option would be composted mulch, but once again, I don't know why it is so hard to find in my area. I can find pretty colorful mulch, but not the composted one.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

One thing I can add is that depending on the tree, a pond basket will not hold the roots at all. I moved most of my trees from pond baskets to Rootpouch bags. They were sitting in the ground over and covered on the sides by mulch over winter last year. 3 of them broke through the pond basket and had a tap root as thick as the trunk with roots already breaking the holes of the basket. A Yoshino cherry tree, a trident and a bald cypress. I guess dwarf varieties could be ok, or trees with slow root development.

What kind of bags do you use?

 

[Maiden69]

What kind of bags do you use?

Rootpouch, I order them from Lowes. Cheapest place so far.

 

[roberthu]

It seems to me that a lot of people who comment negatively on certain things have very little or no personal experience with those things. I have tried baskets, bags and bare ground planting for bonsai development and I find there is a place for all of them in my life. I actually first used grow bags over 30 years ago and I have some pond baskets that are over 20 years old and still holding up. I just dug some cherries that were in the ground in soil for the past 3 years. They have decent roots but required the pruning of many large lateral roots that were tangled with the roots of the adjacent plants. The plants in baskets were more contained with finer root ramification. The plants in bags were even more so. Both of these methods allow me to plant more plants in a smaller area than bare ground planting. Its hard to work a spade between plants if planted side by side in the ground without affecting adjacent plants. With baskets I simply slide the spade down the outside of the basket and lift it out.
If in doubt and if you like to experiment, you have nothing to lose by trying alternate methods. I sure am glad I did.

I have used baskets on the ground and what happened was certain roots escape the baskets and extend into the soil beneath them. Over time, those roots got much larger and stronger and broke the small holes in the baskets. when I dug them up, those roots basically had to be cut off because of their size. Maybe there is a huge difference between grow bed and just ground. or maybe 2 years was too long. But I thought I share my own experience.

 

[roberthu]

One thing I can add is that depending on the tree, a pond basket will not hold the roots at all. I moved most of my trees from pond baskets to Rootpouch bags. They were sitting in the ground over and covered on the sides by mulch over winter last year. 3 of them broke through the pond basket and had a tap root as thick as the trunk with roots already breaking the holes of the basket. A Yoshino cherry tree, a trident and a bald cypress. I guess dwarf varieties could be ok, or trees with slow root development.

This is exactly what happened to me 4 years ago. One root on a trident maple was almost as thick as the main trunk and had no fine roots for a good foot.