I bought a group of Western White pine seedlings that were obviously grown in a tube. I don't care for tubed seedlings because I don't like the roots that are all jammed up in a group like they are. This plug is about 4.5" long. I bought these in late fall and originally planted them in the pot as shown in a group. One of the problems that I see is that the wad of roots soaks up water and they seem to be damp all the time. These are just now starting to bud out. Should I be trying to tease out, or comb out these roots a bit and then replanting in maybe pumice and a little bark chips? I have a hard time believing that I should plant them like they are. Should I cut off some of the roots and then tease out the rest or ? Help appreciated.
Plug Seedlings
- Thread starter August44
- Start date
WNC Bonsai
Masterpiece
I have bought both American and Japanese larch seedlings as plugs and mine already had stiff tangled roots. Given the sensitivity of larch to root disturbance and the fact I planned to use them in a forest I just grew them up that way and hid the gnarly roots under a layer of moss. Some young pines can take root manipulation so I think it would depend on how old, vigorous, and sensitive to disturbance they are. If no one can provide that information you may just have to roll the dice and learn from experience.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Tubes are great for planting into soil, and especially into native soil where they get no follow up care. The long roots on tube seedlings help the tree to re-establish with little assistance in hostile environment. Long, confined roots are NOT good for developing bonsai but, with good conditions it does not need all those roots.
I have no experience with western white pine but other pine seedlings at this age can cope with extensive root reduction provided you can give decent care. These are almost certainly 1 year old seedlings and should easily cope with root reduction. I'd be chopping roots much shorter and combing out remaining laterals as much as possible to start developing nebari.
I would comb out the upper roots to find where the upper laterals start then chop below 3 or 4 strong lateral roots. If you are concerned that could be too harsh, go a little further and leave a few more roots. You can always reduce in a few years if necessary.
I have no experience with western white pine but other pine seedlings at this age can cope with extensive root reduction provided you can give decent care. These are almost certainly 1 year old seedlings and should easily cope with root reduction. I'd be chopping roots much shorter and combing out remaining laterals as much as possible to start developing nebari.
I would comb out the upper roots to find where the upper laterals start then chop below 3 or 4 strong lateral roots. If you are concerned that could be too harsh, go a little further and leave a few more roots. You can always reduce in a few years if necessary.
This is the biggest reason for NOT slip potting into very different potting soil. When these tubestock seedlings go direct into forest soil the soils are similar so water can move from root ball to soil and vice versa. When we put them into airy mix water has trouble moving between the different soil types. Teasing out some roots can help. Removing some of the old soil to better integrate new and old soils can also help. In this case, root pruning and rearranging the remaining roots will do both.
RoadManDenDron
Chumono
I would keep one or 2 to expose the roots down the line,
Sadly I don't expect much interesting movement in the individual roots and would instead be hoping for thickening and fusion to create an extension of the trunk
Wiring movement into the roots as a whole as the eventual first section of trunk
Sadly I don't expect much interesting movement in the individual roots and would instead be hoping for thickening and fusion to create an extension of the trunk
Wiring movement into the roots as a whole as the eventual first section of trunk
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
That's a great idea. Not sure a dead straight fused tube shaped trunk would be really attractive. I've seen this done where the entire root mass was loosely wired and bent to give some movement in what will eventually be the fused lower trunk.
I've got some black pines developing now where I purposely bunched the roots as the seedlings were being repotted early with the aim of developing something like that - either exposed roots or fused roots, depending how they develop. Must be time to check on progress of those next Spring?
Still think you'd need to comb out the existing roots to get some sort of order into the developing root mass if planning for exposed roots. Leaving roots growing in random directions might produce good results occasionally but I prefer slightly higher odds.
Hello to all. First off I really appreciate all of your input. I always am amazed at how easy it is to get help on this site and how many continue to participate. Thank you all for your advice. I was told recently that these Western White pines don't do very well as bonsai because of their long needles, so I teased out the roots out carefully, and also did some pruning on the roots and it went pretty well. I was able to get almost all of the roots loosened and spread out a little and then re-potted in pumice with just a little bark added. I then watered with a root starter with mycorrhizae added. Also protected against weather and might put them on a heat pad at around 70 F to help things.
Do you know that there are words to name things that we use in bonsai that are not in the dictionary, words like mycorrhizae, yamadori and probably others too. You can't see, but the word that I just wrote is underlined in red and their correction is "matador". I keep adding these to the dictionary but it's brain is lacking me thinks.
Do you know that there are words to name things that we use in bonsai that are not in the dictionary, words like mycorrhizae, yamadori and probably others too. You can't see, but the word that I just wrote is underlined in red and their correction is "matador". I keep adding these to the dictionary but it's brain is lacking me thinks.
And I will make sure when I am ordering seedlings in the future that they were NOT grown in one of those long narrow tubes with root masses. There are much better seed growing type containers that allow root spread. Yes they are bigger and take up more room but certainly the way to go IMO.
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