please help me choose a landscape variety :)

[Deleted member 21616]

Hi,

Sorry this isn't bonsai related - i am writing here because I know there are people who can help

I attached two photos of the front my place. The other photos are of the general style of tree that i have in mind. The first three pictures are of the Sun Garden at the Kahitsukan Kyoto Museum of Contemporary Art. The other is a photo from google.

I did a quick sketch on one of the photos as a rough idea of the placement that I have in mind, but i'm completely open to suggestions.

Pruning: Are there particular (non-red) variety that tend to grow single or multiple trunks and have very light (as opposed to dense) foliage? Are these usually pruned to be this light, and if so, can i do it to any variety without killing it? For example, a Katsura would probably be my top choice because of its coloration, but i'm not sure if removing 60% of its foliage every year would kill it. Are these trees allowed to grow wild and only pruned when its time for photos?

Trunks: I like the idea of multiple trunks, but I am not opposed to the idea of single trunk. Not quite literati, but definitely with movement as opposed to a straight trunk. I definitely don't want to put a weeping/cascading variety here.

Size/light: Anything from 4 to 10 feet tall could work. I am limited in left-to-right movement because of the stairs (but i can come over the walkway). I have a good 8 feet of front-to-back movement that i can play with. This a north-facing yard, which is mostly in the shade except for an 1-3 hours in early morning in the summer (at this time of year, it gets no more than 1 hour). The grasses and low plants currently in the yard will eventually be replaced with mosses. (the previous owners had a thing for grasses).

Availability: I unfortunately haven't been able to find any growers, and the landscape stores in Quebec tend to have teenagers with very little knowledge selling these trees. Fortunately, these stores can anyways order from extraordinarily long lists of Japanese maples. I've gone through Vertrees a few times, but its hard to pick a tree from a catalog with tiny pictures of a single specimen of any given variety. Two stores agreed to order 5-10 specimens of any 3-4 varieties that I would like them to order because they are open to expanding their product range (so I will have choice).

 

[River's Edge]

Hi,

Sorry this isn't bonsai related - i am writing here because I know there are people who can help

I attached two photos of the front my place. The other photos are of the general style of tree that i have in mind. The first three pictures are of the Sun Garden at the Kahitsukan Kyoto Museum of Contemporary Art. The other is a photo from google.

I did a quick sketch on one of the photos as a rough idea of the placement that I have in mind, but i'm completely open to suggestions.

Pruning: Are there particular (non-red) variety that tend to grow single or multiple trunks and have very light (as opposed to dense) foliage? Are these usually pruned to be this light, and if so, can i do it to any variety without killing it? For example, a Katsura would probably be my top choice because of its coloration, but i'm not sure if removing 60% of its foliage every year would kill it. Are these trees allowed to grow wild and only pruned when its time for photos?

Trunks: I like the idea of multiple trunks, but I am not opposed to the idea of single trunk. Not quite literati, but definitely with movement as opposed to a straight trunk. I definitely don't want to put a weeping/cascading variety here.

Size/light: Anything from 4 to 10 feet tall could work. I am limited in left-to-right movement because of the stairs (but i can come over the walkway). I have a good 8 feet of front-to-back movement that i can play with. This a north-facing yard, which is mostly in the shade except for an 1-3 hours in early morning in the summer (at this time of year, it gets no more than 1 hour). The grasses and low plants currently in the yard will eventually be replaced with mosses. (the previous owners had a thing for grasses).

Availability: I unfortunately haven't been able to find any growers, and the landscape stores in Quebec tend to have teenagers with very little knowledge selling these trees. Fortunately, these stores can anyways order from extraordinarily long lists of Japanese maples. I've gone through Vertrees a few times, but its hard to pick a tree from a catalog with tiny pictures of a single specimen of any given variety. Two stores agreed to order 5-10 specimens of any 3-4 varieties that I would like them to order because they are open to expanding their product range (so I will have choice).

Zone information would be helpful! if i understand your question you are asking for a reccomendation for one landscape tree suitable for that location and your climate? Preferably a maple?

 

[Deleted member 21616]

Zone information would be helpful! if i understand your question you are asking for a reccomendation for one landscape tree suitable for that location and your climate? Preferably a maple?

Thanks for your response!

Definitely a maple!

I'm in Montreal. Which is considered a 6A. (I can provide winter protection)

My question is primarily about growth habits, but yes you are right the tree must suit my climate! Thank you!

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks for your response!

Definitely a maple!

I'm in Montreal. Which is considered a 6A. (I can provide winter protection)

My question is primarily about growth habits, but yes you are right the tree must suit my climate! Thank you!

Most of your expressed concerns are addressed by the type of care and regular maintenance the tree receives. Style, size, density of foliage can all be managed with proper care,
i am curious as to how you plan to provide winter protection if planted in the ground?
I would advise a native maple species, common to your area!

 

[Deleted member 21616]

Most of your expressed concerns are addressed by the type of care and regular maintenance the tree receives. Style, size, density of foliage can all be managed with proper care,
i am curious as to how you plan to provide winter protection if planted in the ground?
I would advise a native maple species, common to your area!

i appreciate your answer, thank you.

We had the “use your native species” conversation in my main thread: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/my-maples-in-montreal.33315/ To summarize, i'm not interested in anything other than Japanese maples.

Montreal tends to stay warmer than the rest of southern Quebec, and a wide variety of Japanese maples are successfully grown as bonsai and as landscape trees. Commonly used landscape trees are Crimson Queen, Inaba Shidrare, Red Dragon, Waterfall and Viridis in the weeping varieties, and Bloodgood, Emperor, Aka Shigitatsu Sawa, Arakawa, Deshojo, Koto no ito, Sango Kaku, and Shishigashira in the 'upright' varieties, to name just a few. In short, I am not worried about climate.

My main question has to do with growth habits. For example, I can buy a 6-foot tall shishigashira, but it will never look like tree in my initial post.

I just went for a walk to take the two first pictures in this post for you. I have no idea what the variety is of these trees, but I can see myself using 1-2 trunks from either of these multi-trunk trees.

The third picture is a katsura maple. Can a Katsura be pruned to look like the 4th picture in this post? (or would that just be too much thinning out for the variety?) I know that a shishigashira cannot, for example.

So to put my question explicitly: I am look for a variety that can look like the photos in my initial post, but I am also open to all recommendations. There is a general feel and shape I am looking for, which is the style of maple tree commonly seen in Japanese courtyards. I have not been to Japan, and have no means of finding out what kind of maple is commonly used in courtyards in Japan.

I have confidence that somebody here will be able to name a few varieties, likely varieties that they themselves keep.

 

[River's Edge]

i appreciate your answer, thank you.

We had the “use your native species” conversation in my main thread: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/my-maples-in-montreal.33315/ To summarize, i'm not interested in anything other than Japanese maples.

Montreal tends to stay warmer than the rest of southern Quebec, and a wide variety of Japanese maples are successfully grown as bonsai and as landscape trees. Commonly used landscape trees are Crimson Queen, Inaba Shidrare, Red Dragon, Waterfall and Viridis in the weeping varieties, and Bloodgood, Emperor, Aka Shigitatsu Sawa, Arakawa, Deshojo, Koto no ito, Sango Kaku, and Shishigashira in the 'upright' varieties, to name just a few. In short, I am not worried about climate.

My main question has to do with growth habits. For example, I can buy a 6-foot tall shishigashira, but it will never look like tree in my initial post.

I just went for a walk to take the two first pictures in this post for you. I have no idea what the variety is of these trees, but I can see myself using 1-2 trunks from either of these multi-trunk trees.

The third picture is a katsura maple. Can a Katsura be pruned to look like the 4th picture in this post? (or would that just be too much thinning out for the variety?) I know that a shishigashira cannot, for example.

So to put my question explicitly: I am look for a variety that can look like the photos in my initial post, but I am also open to all recommendations. There is a general feel and shape I am looking for, which is the style of maple tree commonly seen in Japanese courtyards. I have not been to Japan, and have no means of finding out what kind of maple is commonly used in courtyards in Japan.

I have confidence that somebody here will be able to name a few varieties, likely varieties that they themselves keep.

Well in that case. I ish you the very best in your quest and best in Bonsai!

 

[Wilson]

Hey Derek, Jean Francois is the Iseli sales rep for eastern Canada, and his family nursery is Au jardin de Jean-Pierre. He specializes in Japanese maples, so he would be a great resource. Also Vineland nursery from Niagara, they have great stuff.

 

[Wilson]

I will check the Centre de jardinage Brossard for you tomorrow, lots on sale!

 

[jmw_bonsai]

Acer palmatum 'Seiryu' is an upright green dissectum which would be a good fit for pruning like that.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

Hey Derek, Jean Francois is the Iseli sales rep for eastern Canada, and his family nursery is Au jardin de Jean-Pierre. He specializes in Japanese maples, so he would be a great resource. Also Vineland nursery from Niagara, they have great stuff.

I was just recommending Vineland to somebody in waterloo! I haven't been myself, but their list is mind boggling, and they seem especially passionate about japanese maples. Have you been in person? I was thinking of going next weekend, and also visiting the toronto bonsai exhibition. Not sure.

I did call Au jardin de Jean-Pierre a few weeks ago! I don't know if I just landed on the wrong person on the phone, but from what i understand (i speak french as well as i do english) they only have korean hybrids, and no "traditional" maples like the shin deshojo, katsura, etc. In retrospect, this is very odd now that i know that they are the sales reps for Iseli, who carry more than korean hybrids. I will call them back tomorrow.

They are not far from Bonsai ENR, so i can do 2 birds with 1 stone.

I will check the Centre de jardinage Brossard for you tomorrow, lots on sale!

I was there on Saturday to pick up my two shin deshojo trees, but they some how sold the 2 that they had put aside for me

They had 3 left on the floor, but none of them had anything interesting going on.

They did have quite a few Acer Ginnala at 30 bucks a pop minus 30%. I would have taken 3-4, but because they screwed me on the deshojos i'm made it a point to never spend a dollar there.... until they get trees in may haha

Acer palmatum 'Seiryu' is an upright green dissectum which would be a good fit for pruning like that.

That is a really nice variety!!! Thank you! It has all the characteristics that i was looking for! I see myself with a section of the attached specimen.

I welcome all other recommendations of course!

 

[Japonicus]

Does Spring and Autumn colouring have any bearing on your selection?
It certainly depicts my landscape choices. I'm so limited on space, but do have
a very few Japanese maples in my landscape. I literally have <1000 sq ft of yard.
Acer Japonicum Otaki, Acer Shirasawanum Autumn Moon, and Viridis are my 3 favorites
and oldest trees I have. The Autumn Moon has both Spring and Autumn cornered for outstanding
colours. Viridis, check cold hardiness for your zone, and the Otaki, cannot, be beat for Autumn display!!!
Also have Wilsons Pink, Katsura, and Mikawa Yatsubusa all planted in ground for bonsai hopefully.
The Katsura you've shown interest in has grown well since planting in ground April this year
adding at least 3 feet from a 1g pot at 4' to now 7'. Wilsons pink has splendid Spring colouring.
I forget the Autumn colours of it since I lost my original Wilsons Pink bonsai. They are small leaved
and sort of airy but the internodes are close enough to beckon your call.
My Katsura and Wilsons Pink get ~3 hrs of direct noonish Sunlight and do well with that.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

Does Spring and Autumn colouring have any bearing on your selection?
It certainly depicts my landscape choices. I'm so limited on space, but do have
a very few Japanese maples in my landscape. I literally have <1000 sq ft of yard.
Acer Japonicum Otaki, Acer Shirasawanum Autumn Moon, and Viridis are my 3 favorites
and oldest trees I have. The Autumn Moon has both Spring and Autumn cornered for outstanding
colours. Viridis, check cold hardiness for your zone, and the Otaki, cannot, be beat for Autumn display!!!
Also have Wilsons Pink, Katsura, and Mikawa Yatsubusa all planted in ground for bonsai hopefully.
The Katsura you've shown interest in has grown well since planting in ground April this year
adding at least 3 feet from a 1g pot at 4' to now 7'. Wilsons pink has splendid Spring colouring.
I forget the Autumn colours of it since I lost my original Wilsons Pink bonsai. They are small leaved
and sort of airy but the internodes are close enough to beckon your call.
My Katsura and Wilsons Pink get ~3 hrs of direct noonish Sunlight and do well with that.

I cannot thank you enough! These are the kinds of thoughts i was hoping people would share!

I would love to see pictures of the oldest ones you mentioned if possible The autumn moon looks interesting in google images.

color: the bricks of my house has a pink/purple/red hue. I made the mistake of planting a red dragon, which doesn't quite pop as much as I would like a tree to. For this tall narrow one i'm leaning towards something in the green/yellow/orange.

I wish i had 1000 sq feet of yard! I'm working with about 14 x 25 feet (the total front yard), no more than 350 sq feet! (see attached).

On the right side, kind of right in the center, i removed those low yellow leaves and planted a red dragon a bit further back (closer to the house i mean) and slightly off to the right (closer to the alley way).

On the right: i'm hoping to fit 2-3 maples total.

On the left: 1 tall (the one currently being discussed) and 1 short closer to the front. I just measured, and there is 60" between the stairs on the far left and the path. I intend to plant the tall one closer to the house and kind of beneath the stairs, so that it moves towards the path and looks like its reaching for light in the way that that tree is reaching for light through that skylight in my first post. In front of it, I would like to put something lower, but haven't gotten that far yet.

I've printed out these pictures and started drawing on them. Needless to say, landscaping is an art that is difficult to fake knowledge of.

 

[SantaFeBonsai]

This is a pretty comprehensive list of many commercially available maples with growing condition requirements.

http://www.metromaples.com/inventory/

Personally I would also look at holly’s. As a landscape ornamental you can style to your hearts content.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

@NorthTXacer Thank you!!

 

[Japonicus]

Hiya @derek7745 I like your stately brick home. That's cool
Nothing wrong with a red dragon amongst others that bring it out
but I know what you mean having a red back drop. My red lace leaf
I have 2, one that's more upright and one that's more like my Viridis
which I think is a red dragon, not sure, didn't do too well this Summer
but is probably in our landscape about 20 yrs not pictured.

On the left wanting 3 maples, what do you think about the taller one in the back
a dwarf on the left and closer to the front, then on the right a semi dwarf?
This symmetry would lead the eye sloping in towards the stairs and the homes centre
and planted in a triangle dwarfs up front. Just an idea...

A tree like the japonicum Otaki can handle some Sun, and displays more purple leaves
if I remember correctly from my research on them, with less light, to a point.
Just remember your area lacks light, and keep that in mind when researching your trees
because the soil qualities + moisture, and light received, can have an impact on not only the health
but also the colouring. My Otaki had a hard Summer due to not spraying for insects
but also, mostly I think, I took down a 60' Aspen tree that was providing some good shade mid day.
Now it's not there, and the maples have to adjust if they can. Same for my Autumn Moon.

Here's my Otaki Nov. 2, 2011. The other side of the Aspen is the Autumn Moon 2 yrs after planting.
Here's my Otaki and Autumn Moon today Oct. 11, 2018

They're getting well over 6hrs of Sunlight on the S side of my home. Probably 8 hrs this year
without the Aspen tree. I did plant that ornamental Malus Profusion crabapple tree for shade
on the Otaki earlier this Summer. They take full Sun better.
There's any Autumn colour you'd want all built into the Otaki, just not all one colour.
The Autumn Moon however is more an orange Autumn tree.
Pale to med. green in Summer, and here's a link to the Spring colours this year

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/a-s-autumn-moon-in-ground-full-spring-colour.33391/


This is my new, but old Viridis on the right Just planted early this Summer.
The red lace leaf on the left I gave $25 for with a broken crown probably 12 yrs ago same height.
My yard looks awful this year but is on an upswing I hope. Crabgrass grew right through the
pre-emergence barrier, and I've shunned a lot of the chemical I normally use this year.

This is my Katsura and Wilsons Pink (planted this year from 1g pots) then Acer palmatum palmatum
with multiple trunks. They have a nice Autumn colour, and does VERY well in this shade with
~3 hrs of mid day Sun.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

@Japonicus Thank you for your help and for sharing the pics!

I especially love the autumn moon, and that's a nice viridis too!

I really appreciate your idea - i sketched it out to help me visual it, and i like it a lot (although I drew the trees bigger than will be in real life because i'm using a 3" screen and sausage fingers). I hope i understood you correctly?

Please feel free to suggest for the right side! I've been playing with ideas, but haven't settled on anything. i think i might remove the bushes along the house just to get a better picture of what i have to work with. The bushes are Euonymus Alatus. I was planning on running moss right up to the house. I don't really want any plants marking the 'perimeter'.

Thank you!!

 

[ysrgrathe]

Autumn Moon and Katsura (actually any of the yellows) tend to get very beat up looking by the end of the season unless they are very well protected from wind and get exactly the right amount of light. My Autumn Moon looks best with just a couple of hours of sun. Seiryu will be much less finicky. They are strong growers and will give you plenty of pruning options.

 

[Japonicus]

My Autumn Moon has faired the most exposed side of my yard that has no wind break
from the Westerlies, better than any of my other maples save for the 3 or 4 in little Sun.
The Northerlies are the only winds that get to it very little being on the S side of my house.
The leaves do appear more fragile, but have held their own better than expected this year really.
Mine's a pretty slow grower. That's why, I posted the earlier pics. Been there now 9 years.

@derek7745 your sketch looks fine, but I cannot comment on your Sunlight provisions
being only maybe 1-3 hrs early on in the day. May be absolutely perfect, I don't know.
Depends more on the tree you choose really. I had my idea of the space on the wrong
side of the stairs though, so that leading the eye in thing, was for the left side of the stairs.
There in the middle of the home, only matters to keep shorter ones forwards, and if one fails
well keep digging, and trying different ones till you get it right. Best of luck

 

[Deleted member 21616]

Thank you both @Japonicus and @ysrgrathe

I had not thought about the wind, but now that you mention it my street is very windy

I'm driving to vineland nurseries tomorrow with all of this information and advice written out. I'm hoping the owner of the nursery will have some suggestions.

I'm not sure if it's too late to plant this fall, but if it is i will keep them in the cold storage/greenhouse i just finished today, until spring planting season comes along: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/my-maples-in-montreal.33315/page-6

I need to borrow a truck to get to vineland nurseries, and it is about 7-8 hours away from me, so i have to go when the opportunity presents itself - I can't be picky.

Thank you!!!!

 

[Japonicus]

Thank you both @Japonicus and @ysrgrathe

I had not thought about the wind, but now that you mention it my street is very windy

I'm driving to vineland nurseries tomorrow with all of this information and advice written out. I'm hoping the owner of the nursery will have some suggestions.

I'm not sure if it's too late to plant this fall, but if it is i will keep them in the cold storage/greenhouse i just finished today, until spring planting season comes along: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/my-maples-in-montreal.33315/page-6

I need to borrow a truck to get to vineland nurseries, and it is about 7-8 hours away from me, so i have to go when the opportunity presents itself - I can't be picky.

Thank you!!!!

Awesome. Local nursery with old man would be wise choice. Long drive, wow!
We had -18 F here year before last one night. The cold and wind which you said you could provide
Winter protection, may be your worst enemy. Anyway, I did put flannel sheets over my Otaki and Autumn Moon then
supported by ltall steaks. My 1st Viridis didn’t make it, whether it was the cold or exposure...but God they are
a dream in full Autumn colour. Orange ?and gracefully elegant.