Pine question... growth without candles?

[ecalvillo7]

Hi Bonsai Nuts! I got a pine from a friend some months ago and started to see some budding in the needles that were cut. It seems as if it does not grow by candles but by budding where the cut was made... so, now i don´t know if it is really a pine, or is it a different species of tree? Any help greatly appreciated... Still learning to wire so don´t give me hate for it.

 

[PiñonJ]

Looks like a spruce with a lot of needles missing, in which case, you need to let it grow a lot more foliage before you do anything to it.

 

[ecalvillo7]

Looks like a spruce with a lot of needles missing, in which case, you need to let it grow a lot more foliage before you do anything to it.

Thanks... my first thought was also its a spruce

 

[Potawatomi13]

OR possibly Pine reverted to juvenile growth after drastic pruning. Don't Spruce have 3-4 cornered needles? These seem round on bottom/flat on top like pine. Great pictures! Feed well let grow freely at least 2 years and see if Pine type needles begin to show. Also please clean weeds out of pot taking nourishment and water from tree. Basic branch structure looks good. Wiring will get better in time.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

It looks very spruce like to me.
Smooth bark, whitish color, very compact growth. If it would be juvenile pine needles, I would expect them to be larger, less compacted and more flat and wide. There would also be something that should look like a candle-base (brown parts) like on my mugo pictured below.
I'm growing a lot of pines from seed and none of them have growth that looks remotely like spruce needles.


So by excluding that it's a pine, it's probably a spruce. I would be surprised if it isn't.

 

[Potawatomi13]

You ignore cross sectional shape of needles although possible not seen perfectly.

 

[Mike Westervelt]

Picea engelmanni subsp. mexicana

 

[Crazy Diamond]

I think its a Stone pine or Halepensis pine with juvenile foliage not a Picea, that happens a lot when they are constantly pruned back

 

[Colorado]

Spruce.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Pinus pinea Stone pine with juvenile foliage

Pinus halepensis with juvenile foliage Bonsai tonight, Aleppo pine

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Good point @Arnold ! I have some aleppo pines and I used to have stone pines, and they seem to produce bark at quite a young age. My own halpensis are making bark at age 2 and my stone pines had plates at age 6. That's why I was thinking spruce. My aleppo pines also have way more open/extended growth compared to the tree that OP is showing.

You ignore cross sectional shape of needles although possible not seen perfectly.

I didn't ignore it, some spruces do this too especially if they're from warmer regions, I'm not familiar with US spruces but some of my european spruce branches show a similar foliage pattern. However, it seems to vary a lot on the same tree; some have more rounded foliage while others seem to have more flattened foliage.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

I also have halepensis, sometimes they stay long time with the grayish smooth bark like these one also from bonsai tonight blog but with adult foliage

 

[Waxman]

Could it possibly be a Cedar such as Cedrus lebannii??

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

@ecalvillo7 Did you ask your friend what kind of tree this is?
Because now I really want to know!

 

[Crazy Diamond]

I know for you guys dont make much sense to be a Pine because you are not used to them , but if you ussually work with Stone and Aleppo pine its clearly a pine not a picea or cedrus

Stone pine juvenile foliage, if you are not familiar with them I also would think its a picea or something

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I know for you guys dont make much sense to be a Pine because you are not used to them , but if you ussually work with Stone and Aleppo pine its clearly a pine not a picea or cedrus

Stone pine juvenile foliage, if you are not familiar with them I also would think its a picea or something

Since you're from the Canary isles, have you tried Juniperus phoenicea? They are endemic to your region! Not sure about Tenerife, but I found articles that there should be wild populations there.
I think they're locally called Sabina negra, but nobody could tell me more about them.

 

[ecalvillo7]

@ecalvillo7 Did you ask your friend what kind of tree this is?
Because now I really want to know!

Thanks for all the responses guys... Yes i asked him, he say its a piñion pine (here in mexico) which i believe is similar to stone pine.

From the responses im guessing its a stone pine.

 

[ecalvillo7]

I also have halepensis, sometimes they stay long time with the grayish smooth bark like these one also from bonsai tonight blog but with adult foliage

Liked very much this bonsai!!!! i was thinking of reducing it to something similar

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Since you're from the Canary isles, have you tried Juniperus phoenicea? They are endemic to your region! Not sure about Tenerife, but I found articles that there should be wild populations there.
I think they're locally called Sabina negra, but nobody could tell me more about them.

Yes I have Juniperus phoenicea they grow in Tenerife but the most famous grow in El Hierro island, I also grow Juniperus cedrus a prickly juniper similar to Juniperus rigida, both species have good potential for bonsai. The Pinus canariensis have enormous adult needles but the juvenile are pretty small like halepensis and its one of the few pines that survive if they loss all his foliage by fire or pruning and sprout from old wood like no other pine

 

[Mike Westervelt]

It's a spruce, not a pine