Picking out bonsai liners

[Cable]

I'm looking for some feedback so that I might learn more (n00b here).

Background: I've been interested in bonsai for at least 25 but it wasn't until recently that I started doing something about it. I organized and attended a beginner's workshop taught by a local expert. For the workshop I wanted people to have untrained trees they could work on. My bonsai guy was not thrilled with my selections. Now, granted, I approached it from the perspective that most of these plants were going to be killed by the total novices but I get what he was saying about there not being much to work with.

I'm working on putting together workshop #2 and picked out a few liners for the students to use. I took bonsai guy's advice and looked for plants we were going to throw away (I work at a plant nursery) since I agreed that plants too ugly to sell in a garden center often make good bonsai stock. However, that also meant I didn't have a lot to choose from.

Below are some pictures of what I picked and my logic for doing so. I'd like to know if I was on the right track or totally blew it. I know two of them I'm already not happy with BUT they'll work since like I said... beginners kill.

I liked the roots on this cornus alternifolia and though the trunk had some possibilities.

I thought the roots were great on this cornus florida

Amelanchier lamarkii with a nice lean and some fun roots. Apparently I'm a root man...

I may have messed up on this chionanthus virginicus. I really don't remember what I was going for when I picked it out. Maybe I liked the multiple stems?

It isn't evident in this picture but this euonymus alatus compactus already looks like a miniature tree and I liked the bark striations. I'm hoping that hint of an exposed root has more hidden below the surface.

This taxodium shawnee brave looks really rough but I liked the trunk.

This one is in better shape and I liked the trunk

You can see much of this acer p ryusen but I thought the overall shape was fun.

This ryusen has much better branching and I think both would make decent semi-cascading.

I'm concerned that the thickness of the trunk on this acer viridis doesn't leave much room for shaping but it does have a gentle curve to it already.

This viridis has a much more pronounced curve and I think it will make a nice tree one day but will probably have to be trunk chopped and not look like much at the end of the workshop. Nice roots, though.

So, did I do anything right on any of these? Do you think my bonsai guy will be happier this go-round?

 

[Zach Smith]

Mixed bag. I think the main question is, do you plan to conduct this workshop soon? Meaning you drastically cut down all of these specimens and apply wire and bend and twist, etc.? With winter soon to arrive? I think you'd be asking a lot of these specimens, to survive and prosper under such conditions. Unless the goal is just to practice, with little hope they're still around come spring.

For what it's worth.

 

[Cable]

Sorry, didn't elaborate on that. No, the workshop isn't until spring. I pulled these together to winter in one house where I'd be able to find them in March.

 

[Adair M]

You’re making this way too hard.

Get a dozen Procumbens Nana Juniper.

 

[bonsaidave]

Junipers all the way. Big trees are daunting and probably a bit too much for beginners. 1/2 gallon Home Depot Junipers are pretty forgiving when I mangle them up.

 

[Rambles]

I third the Junipers.

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[Zach Smith]

Sorry, didn't elaborate on that. No, the workshop isn't until spring. I pulled these together to winter in one house where I'd be able to find them in March.

The rule of thumb for beginner classes is to select material with low branching that can be pruned such that you get a nice trunk line in a tree that's not more than about 12-14" tall. Procumbens junipers, as Adair said, are ideal for this. They're cheap, tough and bushy which allows for a nice design.

 

[Cable]

Get a dozen Procumbens Nana Juniper.

That’s pretty much what I did last time. A bunch of pro nanas and some young azaleas mixed with a handful of misc plants. My bonsai guy said he didn’t like them, especially the junipers. I thought the junipers looked the best at the end of the workshop. I ended up with a crape mryrtle and I love it even though I totally put the wire on wrong and our teacher didn’t like the design I went with.

That’s good advice, Zach, thank you.

 

[Eric Group]

Deciduous trees like the Maples are not good beginner Bonsai class subjects. All you do is chop them and wait a year... not much theater or leason to be learned there.

The "Bonsai guy" needs to give you better advice on selection or source the material himself IMO.

 

[rockm]

Don't mistake "ugly" for "bonsaiable" Not the same. A lot of those twisted roots are just plain ugly and will have to be removed or drastically reduced./

 

[James W.]

Sounds to me like your bonsai guy maybe ought to pick out what he would like to work with. And he might want to take a look at what you have and maybe do any work that might need to be done this fall to be ready for next spring.

If you can afford it get double what you might need, that will give the novices some training on looking for usable material. Or make the 1st hour of training a trip to the nursery. From a novice perspective.

And, wow. Thank you for taking the initiative to put something together just for beginners. I know that I am not likely to go to a workshop training because I just know that whatever I bring will just be an embarrassment.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I applaud your enthusiasm, great job getting a group together. You are not terribly far from Cleveland, there's an active clubs there, and a number of very experienced artists in the area. Be sure to attend the Cleveland shows and get to know the resources there. Some would be willing to drive the hour or so west to your area.

You selection of trees is interesting, great in that all are fully winter hardy for your area. As Rock M said, some is not beginner material. Each has it's quirks. You will be driving your teacher nuts in that he will be explaining unique care issues for just about every tree. Do the teacher a favor, limit choices to one or two species per class.

Example. My study group, Arbor Arts Collective, has all levels of experience. Each year, we pick a species, and all that want to learn gets one. Then as a group we learn the multi year process of handling and styling the species. For example, we have as a group picked up 12 Amelanchier, a different year it was a dozen Stewartia. We all have Hinoki, JBP, Spruce & Ponderosa pines. Try doing this, year teacher will thank you. Also with a species focus you can bring in a teacher who specializes in the species for that sequence of classes. You can't learn everything you need in just one class.

Chionanothus - fringe tree, a fascinating species, with all the problems of Osmanthus, but larger leaves. These olive relatives tend to be coarse in their branching. Usually end up displayed in bloom and hidden for the rest of the year. (Like wisteria).

Dogwoods, the C alternifolia will frustrate your classmates with suckers, it does not want to be a single trunk tree. C Florida has its quirks, think large kusamono.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Bald Cypress was a good choice. Maples are a difficult for beginners topic, but like JBP are a main stay of bonsai, no time better to start learning them than the present. Euonymous was a good choice.

I suggest considering Cotoneaster, Pinus sylvestris, and any of your local elm species. My local bonsai club dug 40 Siberian Elms, in a range of sizes, some over 10 feet tall, 4 inch diameter trunks, and had an Elm meeting. They were invasive weed trees on my farm. We did a free give away to the whole club membership. For the next 5 years we will have a meeting discussing various details of working with elms. We'll encourage members to bring their's in and work along together.

 

[Giga]

Learning what to look for is a good thing to learn before picking out material. What that actually looks like too would have done wonders when I first started out way back when. I would watch videos on YouTube of Bjorn,ryan niel, Graham potter, bonsai empire and a few more and you should get a good idea what to look for.

 

[augustine]

How about you ask the artist what he wants to see or if he will supply material.

Sorry but the plants you picked are not very good. And a deciduous tree is not very satisfying for a workshop. Basically all you can do is cut it back. As the guys said use junipers

 

[Cable]

Thanks for the advice guys. I have a call in to our Huron farm for more liners. Spruce, cotoneaster, boxwood, and more. No idea what I’ll actually get, if anything. I don’t have a huge say early on as I’m after scrap plants but last time I had almost two plants per person available and it was quite nice. Trying to keep the cost low.

I’m planning to join Cleveland Bonsai Club, but not sure if this month or next. Depends on my schedule.

 

[Adair M]

Thanks for the advice guys. I have a call in to our Huron farm for more liners. Spruce, cotoneaster, boxwood, and more. No idea what I’ll actually get, if anything. I don’t have a huge say early on as I’m after scrap plants but last time I had almost two plants per person available and it was quite nice. Trying to keep the cost low.

I’m planning to join Cleveland Bonsai Club, but not sure if this month or next. Depends on my schedule.

I can understand trying to keep the cost low, but a stick in a pot isn’t going to give anyone “a learning experience”.

 

[Adair M]

By the way...

Are the people attending the second workshop the same people who attended the first one?

If they are, may I suggest a different approach? Instead of providing a crap tree, each participant should start with decent raw material. Everyone should have the same kind of tree. The work to be done should be “seasonal” work. Instead of pruning, wiring, and potting all the same day, only the work that should be done at that time of year is done. For example, on Junipers in the summer, don’t repot. Wait to early spring. But summer is a great time to make Jin and Shari! The participants should plan on bringing the same plant back for each workshop. So, over a year, it gets worked on 3 or 4 times, and the participants can learn what to do when.

Next year, pick a different variety of tree.

 

[James W.]

By the way...

Are the people attending the second workshop the same people who attended the first one?

If they are, may I suggest a different approach? Instead of providing a crap tree, each participant should start with decent raw material. Everyone should have the same kind of tree. The work to be done should be “seasonal” work. Instead of pruning, wiring, and potting all the same day, only the work that should be done at that time of year is done. For example, on Junipers in the summer, don’t repot. Wait to early spring. But summer is a great time to make Jin and Shari! The participants should plan on bringing the same plant back for each workshop. So, over a year, it gets worked on 3 or 4 times, and the participants can learn what to do when.

Next year, pick a different variety of tree.

This is an excellent idea! Much more beneficial than sending everyone home with an 'instant bonsai'.