Penjing potting mix

[Birchbark]

Hi all, just really curious about what potting mix is used by professionals in China and other countries in the far South/East Asia.

My Google searches only seem to come up with what’s widely used in Japan and around the west (akadama), but I can’t imagine other Asian countries importing akadama from Japan. Their version of the art form has been around for centuries, if not millennia, so I expect they have their own favoured mixes. I just can’t find any real technical info on penjing without bonsai coming up!

Does anyone have any knowledge of this or could put me in the right direction?

I have kept my question to only potting mixes for this post, but would be curious to know if anyones read any penjing books in English, that do go into the techniques they use in day China.

Thanks!

 

[ShadyStump]

Penjing: The Chinese Art of Miniature Gardens
Hu Yunhua
©1982
An incredibly well rounded introduction to penjing that doesn't leave you wanting or overwhelmed. It is just an overview of the art in general, so short on details, but still plenty enough to make you confident in getting started.
It was written just before the boom of all inorganic soils, so you will find it lacking if that's what you're expecting, but it does have a short section on selecting soil. It amounts to an amalgam of, "whatever works," and, "it depends," that essentially leaves you wondering if we've all over complicated the hell out of soils.
I'll share some excerpts from the bit on repotting.

 

[ShadyStump]

I'm left with the impression that it's the same as anything else: use what you have to it's greatest effect.

@HorseloverFat I believe has read into penjing enough to correct us on our vocabulary, so he likely can point us in the direction of more modern resources.

 

[HorseloverFat]

View attachment 481311
View attachment 481312

I'm left with the impression that it's the same as anything else: use what you have to it's greatest effect.

@HorseloverFat I believe has read into penjing enough to correct us on our vocabulary, so he likely can point us in the direction of more modern resources.

Traditionally Penzai or any of the "PenWus" was done with "good" earth soil.

Sandy OR humus...and slightly acidic..

They did not, at least widespread, use specific substrate mixtures.

They would NOW... but "bonsai" kind of took over the "rule book"



Use what works.

 

[HorseloverFat]

The Chinese, originally, had very little "RULES" for penzai.

Weave a river willow through an iron latice?... That was also in the same "classification"

"Penjing' had rocks, trees and sometimes a water feature and depicted a natural scene..

All the "terminology" just come from the base forms, I'll just use Penzai and Penjing', then with the words used to demonstrate define the container, the assembly of materials used and even name or intent.

...

Originally, diffent areas/provinces taught SPECIFIC methods (I.e. using ropes to tie down EVERY branch that emerges, or focusing only on side growth and creating "clouds" OR even more methodical and "bizarre" like the '6-3-1 school of Changshu and Suzhou school.

I will include some pictures.








The only "school" to still be discussed... Is Lin Nan.

 

[HorseloverFat]

View attachment 481311
View attachment 481312

I'm left with the impression that it's the same as anything else: use what you have to it's greatest effect.

@HorseloverFat I believe has read into penjing enough to correct us on our vocabulary, so he likely can point us in the direction of more modern resources.

Oh shoot! Yeah, shady's post covered the "basic" aspects of the soil which was used..

VERY similar to the soil used in Chinese nurseries at the time

 

[Cajunrider]

Soil for penjing depends greatly on the species and the penjing scene you are trying to create. For example, if I am trying to create a common penjing scene where a mountain intersects with a lake and there are some conifers on the mountain and some ficus next to the water, the soil type I use will differ from tree to tree depending on species and location.

 

[ShadyStump]

The Chinese, originally, had very little "RULES" for penzai.

Weave a river willow through an iron latice?... That was also in the same "classification"

"Penjing' had rocks, trees and sometimes a water feature and depicted a natural scene..

All the "terminology" just come from the base forms, I'll just use Penzai and Penjing', then with the words used to demonstrate define the container, the assembly of materials used and even name or intent.

...

Originally, diffent areas/provinces taught SPECIFIC methods (I.e. using ropes to tie down EVERY branch that emerges, or focusing only on side growth and creating "clouds" OR even more methodical and "bizarre" like the '6-3-1 school of Changshu and Suzhou school.

I will include some pictures.

View attachment 481384

View attachment 481385

View attachment 481386


The only "school" to still be discussed... Is Lin Nan.

View attachment 481387

Mind telling us what books you have?

 

[chicago1980]

A china artist I follow

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[HorseloverFat]

Soil for penjing depends greatly on the species and the penjing scene you are trying to create. For example, if I am trying to create a common penjing scene where a mountain intersects with a lake and there are some conifers on the mountain and some ficus next to the water, the soil type I use will differ from tree to tree depending on species and location.

Mind telling us what books you have?

I have the "Chinese Art of bonsai and potted landscapes".. and have burrowed and read the one YOU pictured, as well.

FANTASTIC read.. super in-depth. Touches on how each Dynasties "artistic expression" and government influence changed the "face"..

The problem is, as the Chinese did not really have "rules" set down... So much got lost (absorbed into bonsai) in the transfer of ideas down the silk road....

I learned MUCH from a local Chinese FAMILY!...

 

[GGB]

Missed this thread, but I have a theory forming.... I watch a lot of youtube videos from Chinese penjing professionals (translations are brutal) but they all seem to use soil mixes that would get you laughed out of any American club. Even some of the older guys who live in the states are using "amended dirt" for lack of a better word. I used to chalk it up to climate, and that really probably is a big part of it, but I have started to notice something else recently. China seems to gravitate using species with naturally very tiny leaves from the get go, plant species there are incredibly diverse. I'm generalizing for the record, the world is changing fast. But countries like Japan and Europe aren't afraid to use species with larger foliage, since part of the process is shrinking internode and leaf sizes. And here is where I'm starting to reach a little.. but Ryan Neil has been mentioning akadama's somewhat poisoning amount of manganese having a dwarfing effect on plant growth. Where as he/we used to think it was akadama's unique physical qualities that caused that dwarfing effect. So what I'm saying is, MAYBE the Chinese don't care to use fancy soil mixes because shrinking foliage is not much of a concern, perhaps most of the time they get enough from ramification and things like not-over fertilizing. As long as the soil is fluffy enough to let some oxygen in the tree is good to go. The Japanese on the other hand have a refined fool-proof way of making sure foliage shrinks/oxygen is delivered as long as perfect attention is paid to watering the tree when it needs it. Again ALL A THEORY but even looking through penjing books published very recently the trees (to my american eyes) look like they are planted in tan dirt. Totally different climate in some parts of China but I don't know if that enough to explain it all.

 

[ShadyStump]

I don't think climate is enough to explain it. China has a fairly diverse range of climates, even just a long their coast.

I think we're looking at a difference in priorities relative to the artistic objective.
As you said, the Japanese practice on soil is foolproof as long as watering is perfect. The Japanese goal, though, is a single perfect tree.
In penjing, however, there's much more wiggle room and creative license allowed, and when it comes to landscapes the overall scene being perfect is the objective.
A sizeable landscape includes many trees, often of various species. They simplify care by chosing species that require relatively little management to achieve the desired look, and using soil that allows for much looser parameters.

As often stated, the Japanese took the practice to it's extreme and perfected the individual tree aspect. The Chinese felt no such compulsion.
Now, it does seem to me that the American practice tends to resemble more the Chinese tradition of landscapes and/or a balanced tree/pot pairing, even though our introduction has been primarily Japanese.
Given the climate and cultural diversity of the US, I suspect that we'll see the American practice generally continue to evolve more along the Chinese lines, but with a greater focus on perfecting the individual trees as the centerpiece of the creation.