panda’s Pinus parviflora ‘Aoi’

[pandacular]

I bought this white pine from my local nursery during their fall tree sale. I find the foliage of ‘Aoi’ stunning, and the growth habit looks compelling for an upright or slanting pine. Its also one of the cultivars listed in the Bonsai Today book, so somebody’s using them for bonsai. When I visited they had just received a shipment of these, so there were about 50 to choose from!

I’m not sure what Iseli grafts these onto, but I saw a few with sprouts from the root stock, and it was a rather yellow, short needle pine without the white pine “stripes”. Didn’t look too closely as the tree I selected didn’t have any.

 

[pandacular]

Today, i decided to move some branches on this tree to set their angle as well as let light into the center. i used a combination of guy wires and branch wiring, only structurally. i cut a few small branches off, but mostly left it untouched to drive its strength after a planned spring repot.

Currently, the tree I plan to keep is only up to the second whorl, i.e. the part i wired, which I’ve marked as a cut line below. (now see what @MaciekA means by a “poodle”!)

I hadn’t really considered where I would start the new trunk transition when i wired the branches, so i might redo one as a new leader. Below the second whorl, there is one large branch and several very small one. Currently, I think this will become a slanting tree, slanting away from that first branch.

Speaking of @MaciekA, I plan to pretty much follow the guidelines he shared in this post and the rest of the thread, which I came dangerously close to hijacking.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/pinus-parviflora-aoi-repotting.61614/post-1069316

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

'Aoi' is a very nice cultivar of JWP for bonsai. I agree your "tree" is most likely in the first whorl or possibly first and second whorl of the branches. My question is how does the graft union look? A photo with the lens of camera level with the rim of the pot towards the graft union would be good. I have had grafted trees where the choice of front had to be done based on the graft union, as one side the graft was invisible and the other side was a horrible scar.

Only Iseli nursery can answer with certainty what the current understock used is but I believe a number of years ago they were asked and said they were using Pinus contorta, lodgepole pine, an inland seed source that would be hardy through zone 4. This way their grafted trees would be hardy throughout the lower 48 states, which is their market. Pinus contorta latifolia is the lodgepole pine and is very winter hardy, thru zone 4. Pinus contorta contorta is the shore pine and is only zone 7 hardy.

Understock was a problem with Japanese imported JWP. The Japanese and some North American bonsai nurseries used Japanese black pine, Pinus thunbergii as understock. This was because JBP has great bark and in time the understock would fuse nicely to the JWP trunk yielding a tree with dramatic bark at the base the transitioned to JWP bark higher up in the tree. Aesthetically this is the proper way to go, for best appearance, however this meant the resulting JWP was only as hardy as the understock, meaning zone 7, or zone 6 with good protection. I lost a couple JWP in my early years think JWP would be hardy in my area, not thinking about the JBP understock.

North American landscape nurseries usually use Pinus contorta latifolia, or maybe Pinus sylvestris, the Scots pine. North American Bonsai nurseries often use JBP again for the better bark texture. Though it can vary. You can certainly email and ask before you buy.

Nothing wrong with the bark of Pinus contorta latifolia, lodgepole pine as understock, it has a plated bark that is not wildly different than a mature JWP. The transition is not bad. It is not as dramatic as JBP on an old tree but it is acceptable.

 

[pandacular]

The graft is definitely not ideal from all angles. You can see the V shaped figure low on the trunk in the second picture, but I'll snap some closer pictures of where I think the graft is. There is another part that could be the union that looks something like a callus. Overall, I picked this particular one because it had nice low branching, some chunky, symmetrical roots, and a graft that I think I could minimize from the likely front--it's not ugly from the sides that are perpendicular to the natural lean of the tree.

P. contorta is a good guess, as the color seemed to match for me.

I did end up taking your advice from the other thread, and wire a few pairs of branches. Namely, I picked those ones that needed to be "rolled" to have the branches in the horizontal plane. After taking a few wiring classes and working on my teacher's trees under guidance, I feel very confident wiring...just not pines! But hey, that's why I got several, to get more experience there.

When selecting the new leader, how would you suggest I pick which branch from the second whorl to use? I'm going to take this tree to my next club study group and get their advice on it in person, but I'm curious to know if you have heuristics that I can apply.

 

[pandacular]

Took this tree to study group today, to help find a new leader and future chop point. It was decided to cut back to the first whorl, so I took off the wire and the middle branches, with the top to be slowly weened off before chopping it. Added a bit of wire to the leader. This spring, it’s going in either a grow pot or a mica pot, with the plan to chop the top probably next spring.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Why not keep top and grow as sacrifice for bigger trunk also to grow out graft scar quicker?

 

[pandacular]

Why not keep top and grow as sacrifice for bigger trunk also to grow out graft scar quicker?

Who knows, maybe I will. I try not to over-commit to my plans prior to executing them, as things (mostly, my knowledge/skills/goals) change.

But to answer the question, I don't believe that the trunk below the chop site needs to thicken much relative to the new leader, the graft scar doesn't bother me currently, and I'm willing to take my time on this tree.

On the other hand, reading back on the other thread I shared above, it seems that keeping the sacrificial top for several years would help strengthen the roots and drive the transition out of nursery soil. That could be a great reason to wait, and simply extend my transition/weaning time. I believe @MaciekA recommended keeping the sacrificial top on until the second repot.

 

[MaciekA]

I recommend it mainly because my Aoi didn’t skip a beat after the first repot or the followup core excavation/replacement (If I didn’t mention it above, I did the vacuum thing for that one) and now I’ve got a fair bit of momentum to work with.

This cultivar has done well compared to other pines I grow in terms of “tolerating” a tall poodle-pole of bushy growth above without weakening the keep-branches/shoots in the small tree below.

 

[MaciekA]

I do wish I had about 5 to 10 of these so I could try different paths of development. I’d have at least a couple in a less poodle-y configuration, perhaps with very extended branches.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I do wish I had about 5 to 10 of these so I could try different paths of development. I’d have at least a couple in a less poodle-y configuration, perhaps with very extended branches.

This is one of my favorite JWP cultivars. I can't have enough of them

 

[MaciekA]

This is one of my favorite JWP cultivars. I can't have enough of them

When I found mine, I didn't realize the opportunity at the nursery at the time: A table covered in trays of pots with Aoi JWPs at a nursery just a couple miles from my house -- maybe 10 bucks a piece or something like that. I haven't seen many of them since. Live and learn!

 

[pandacular]

When I picked this one up, there were probably 200 in total, of all different sizes, and they were actively unloading them that day. These 3 gallon ones were quite pricey, but there was a sale on. I went back two weeks later and all but the 6” pots were completely gone!

I do really love this cultivar, so I’ll keep an eye out. It’s beautiful even in its ugly potensai state.

 

[MaciekA]

It's a looker in the spring even if the form of the tree is still coarse.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I do really love this cultivar, so I’ll keep an eye out. It’s beautiful even in its ugly potensai state.

I have three atm... two bonsai potensai and one larger one for landscape. I bought the two small ones first, and after working with them a couple of years I was like "time to put on of these in my yard and see what happens!"

 

[pandacular]

Have either of you tried taking cuttings of these @MaciekA @Bonsai Nut ? It’s time I do a bit of fall cleanup on this as the old needles are dropping, and if I can stick ‘em successfully, I might give it a shot.

 

[pandacular]

After removing fallen needles, removing the next whorl up the poodle, and cleaning up some bottom needles. I think I have a clear direction of the branch orientation to start with now.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I have not tried. I would think it would be difficult, if not impossible, but prove me wrong!

 

[MaciekA]

I tried. I attempted the zuisho method shown on BonsaiQ a while back. Large number of cuttings (filling the terra cotta pot), same shoot maturity, same timing, same soil, same pot, same float-and-stick method, same grow space exposure, same 3 day soak period, etc. No dice. Someone who clones Zuisho with high rates needs to try Aoi.

 

[pandacular]

I went ahead and stuck them because why not? but I’m not expecting anything. Learning to take cuttings of a nice pine variety would be a super power.