One month of research and I have questions

[colley614]

Hi all,

So I finally took the jump of getting into the hobby about a month ago and have been doing loads of research since then. I have been looking around at different Bonsai trees and have come to the idea that the first trees I would like to have a go at are a juniper and a Japanese maple and wanted to grow them to be 60cm informal upright trees. I have bought a Juniper 'old gold' from my local nursery and ordered Japanese maple seeds online which I put in a bag in some vermiculite in the bottom of my fridge. Now I have some questions.

1) I planted the Juniper in a big tub in some multipurpose compost and I am wondering if this is the right course of action? or is there a better way to grow it out? I have no way of planting it in the ground so tubs are my only choice as my back yard is fully paved. It is currently about 45cm in height and whip thin. Is this an ideal time to wire it or should I let it grow for a year first?

2) The Japanese maple I was planning. I am wondering if seed is the best way to go if I want a 60cm tree? I was planning on growing and cutting back to get movement in the trunk and branches. I have seen Japanese maples sold as small trees online and I was wondering if I could buy one of these and start from there?

 

[leatherback]

I would certainly wire the juniper now. The younger the better in my view. Make any curves more dramatic than you want in the final tree: As it grows out the curves will soften.

Although growing from seed is fun, it is the long route. For a 60cm / 3ft tall maple you are looking at a base of at least 2 inch / 5cm. That is going to take you a decade to obtain. So yeah, go get a bigger one from a nursery to play with too!

 

[colley614]

I would certainly wire the juniper now. The younger the better in my view. Make any curves more dramatic than you want in the final tree: As it grows out the curves will soften.

Although growing from seed is fun, it is the long route. For a 60cm / 3ft tall maple you are looking at a base of at least 2 inch / 5cm. That is going to take you a decade to obtain. So yeah, go get a bigger one from a nursery to play with too!

Thank you for the quick reply! That info on the curves has really piqued my interest as I was wondering what would happen to curves as the tree grows. As the trunk grows does it stretch or will the new growth all occur from the top?

 

[leatherback]

All extension growth happens at the ends. Thickening happens everywhere where there is living bark.
However, as the trunk gets thicker the curves get smoother. Not sure why (Does the tree add more wood on the inside of the curve?)

 

[colley614]

All extension growth happens at the ends. Thickening happens everywhere where there is living bark.
However, as the trunk gets thicker the curves get smoother. Not sure why (Does the tree add more wood on the inside of the curve?)

Ah, ok. So all the new growth will happen above where I wire, that's good to know.

Another thing that I've been wondering is there is a couple of really thick branches near the base of the tree. Do I let these grow for now while I'm letting the tree grow on a bit or get them off now? (I was thinking I could make some Jin from these but they might be too low.

 

[Warpig]

Ah, ok. So all the new growth will happen above where I wire, that's good to know.

Another thing that I've been wondering is there is a couple of really thick branches near the base of the tree. Do I let these grow for now while I'm letting the tree grow on a bit or get them off now? (I was thinking I could make some Jin from these but they might be too low.

Some pictures would help alot. But it might be better to let them grow out as a sacrifice branch to be later removed. It depends really. Any chance of getting some pics?

 

[colley614]

Some pictures would help alot. But it might be better to let them grow out as a sacrifice branch to be later removed. It depends really. Any chance of getting some pics?

I'll have a go at getting some pics posted in the morning

 

[Adair M]

Low branches: wire them and put curves and curls in them. Later, you can Jin them and have cool deadwood rather than dull, straight deadwood.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Straight, boring jins are my least favorite thing ever. People are always making little spike knubs and I can't stand them.

Anyway. Get more trees, and enjoy! Seems like you are taking the route of reading and researching a lot. Dont stop. The best care lies in a mixture of techniques usually. Join a club too if thats an option - being around others gets you excited for the hobby and you can get opinions and thoughts from those in your area as well, which will help.

 

[colley614]

Straight, boring jins are my least favorite thing ever. People are always making little spike knubs and I can't stand them.

Anyway. Get more trees, and enjoy! Seems like you are taking the route of reading and researching a lot. Dont stop. The best care lies in a mixture of techniques usually. Join a club too if thats an option - being around others gets you excited for the hobby and you can get opinions and thoughts from those in your area as well, which will help.

I attended my local club meeting yesterday which was amazing. You can sit and look at pictures all day and not understand how a real Bonsai looks in person. I came home and was explaining to my other half what they looked like and I was saying "They look like miniature trees" and she was saying "Yeah, that's the point." And I found it hard to articulate what I meant. I have a ficus Mallsai and all through it has the basic 'tree' structure, it doesn't have that miniature feeling that a true Bonsai does. I felt like I was looking at miniature tree models as opposed to real trees kept small. They looked too perfect.

I know what you mean about other people getting you excited by the hobby. They were talking about travelling to Bonsai auctions which sounded fascinating and about how some of them had bought old trees imported from Japan that were shown at shows and then sold to them. I thought this sounded really interesting, although in my stage of the hobby I really want to grow a couple myself.

 

[leatherback]

I thought this sounded really interesting, although in my stage of the hobby I really want to grow a couple myself.

But to do this.. You should see hundreds of them in person.

Come to Belgium for the Trophy. It will blow you away.

 

[Tieball]

Wondering....because you didn’t mention this detail. You mentioned planting in a tub. Do you have several drainage holes in the bottom of that tub?

 

[colley614]

But to do this.. You should see hundreds of them in person.

Come to Belgium for the Trophy. It will blow you away.

Sorry, I meant I'd rather grow my own tree from scratch rather than buy expensive trees. I totally agree with you and really want to get about and see as many trees as I can. The Belgium one is too soon for me to be able to go. Maybe if it had been in autumn I could have gone.

Wondering....because you didn’t mention this detail. You mentioned planting in a tub. Do you have several drainage holes in the bottom of that tub?

Yes, I put some holes in the bottom before adding the compost. I also made sure water was draining out the bottom after I watered.

 

[colley614]

So after much messing about I have managed to get some photographs together. Here is the tree in the tub I put it in to give it a year to grow on in. The tree is about 45cm and I was hoping to get it to about 2 feet in height with some curves it the trunk.




A close up of the first branch I was thinking of removing.



A close up of the second branch I was thinking of removing. It's at the 'back' not an official back in Bonsai terms just the back as seen from the original terms.



I'm interested in what others think I should do in terms of getting this from its current situation into a decent looking informal upright. (Even if you think it will never make a decent tree at least its an opportunity to practice potting, wiring, jin, etc.)

 

[sorce]

I like your fish!

The hand in the second pic looks like a nose and mouth looking at your tree.

Do you think it will make a decent tree?

After seeing actual ones, how long do you think it might take to "finish" this one?

I wouldn't cut anything yet.

Sorce

 

[colley614]

I like your fish!

The hand in the second pic looks like a nose and mouth looking at your tree.

Do you think it will make a decent tree?

After seeing actual ones, how long do you think it might take to "finish" this one?

I wouldn't cut anything yet.

Sorce

You should see my real fish. I own red turq discus and Burundi frontosa.

Do I think it will make a decent tree? Well, I suppose I could answer that and your second question by saying I don't think it will ever be finished, not in my lifetime, anyway. My initial goal is to use what I have now to wire into maybe the bottom 2/3rd of the trunk and use a high branch as a new leader. I have a vision, whether I can pull it off is the real question. But I only hope to keep the trunk and maybe a couple of branches, one as a new leader to form the top 1/3. This is my plan, if I can pull it off is a different question. One I plan to find out.

(Seems a very existential reply reading it back )

 

[sorce]

You should see my real fish.

Please!

Of Toads and other Pets

Hopefully this will keep us going thru..... Oh hell no. Show your dogs, frogs, and snakes on a log. Tigers? Chimps!? Horses? Sheep? Sorce

www.bonsainut.com

I was just thinking about how NOT cutting ANY plant now....could lead to so many years saved on development time.

If you figure those tips now, will have generated soooo many new tips in just a couple years.

Try not to cut it!

Sorce

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Not removing branches on a juniper when theyre small leaves scars that take forever to heal when the branches get big and have to be removed.

If you have an idea what you want your tree to look like, it doesnt hurt to start it moving in that direction earlier, rather than later.

 

[rockm]

Sorry, I meant I'd rather grow my own tree from scratch rather than buy expensive trees. I totally agree with you and really want to get about and see as many trees as I can. The Belgium one is too soon for me to be able to go. Maybe if it had been in autumn I could have gone.



Yes, I put some holes in the bottom before adding the compost. I also made sure water was draining out the bottom after I watered.

"Buying and expensive tree" CAN THE SAME AS growing one from scratch. Trees are expensive--if you get them from good growers -- because they are usually OLD and have the characteristics as old trees. That takes time to develop. The grower has invested his time and effort in developing the trunk.

If you want a similar tree you need to grow out the trunk. That takes time, like years...As said before- the 3 ft tall tree you want requires a correspondingly thicker trunk, like at least three inches in diameter.

Bottom line is if you get an "expensive" (and that is a relative term) tree, you are paying mostly for the TIME it took to grow...

 

[colley614]

"Buying and expensive tree" CAN THE SAME AS growing one from scratch. Trees are expensive--if you get them from good growers -- because they are usually OLD and have the characteristics as old trees. That takes time to develop. The grower has invested his time and effort in developing the trunk.

If you want a similar tree you need to grow out the trunk. That takes time, like years...As said before- the 3 ft tall tree you want requires a correspondingly thicker trunk, like at least three inches in diameter.

Bottom line is if you get an "expensive" (and that is a relative term) tree, you are paying mostly for the TIME it took to grow...

I totally agree. My theory being expensive relative to lack of experience maintaining. If I had the experience I have seen on this forum and in the local club then buying a tree like that is a sensible option. For me, I think the sensible option is to make my mistakes on something a little less stunning.