Nursery stock Acer Rubrum...need help!!

[Deci22]

Ok, so here i am learning all this cool bonsai stuff and practicing with my little Chinese Elm ( thank goodness it can take a beating lol ) ...I guess Hubby had overheard me talking about how I love how Maples look, He came home yesterday with a dormant red maple in a 3 gallon growers pot, not sure of the age but its roughly 6 feet tall with a base diameter about 1.5 to 2 inches or so. I've been looking for some advice on how to care for it and not finding much...so at some point I'll make a bonsai out of it ( actually looking at it it would make 3 nice little bonsai if I air layered). But since its so young, I'm honestly not sure what to do aside from grow it. Should i repot it in a more shallow pot during spring? (i'd like to bulk it up a bit, get a few more lateral branches and lateral growth versus height ) currently it appears to be in potting soil. I'm at a loss of when to do things because its deciduous and probably more fragile than my elm. Any help would be appreciated! either advice or where to find more info.

 

[Kanorin]

Good news - red maples are also quite tough and vigorous plants. If you want to grow it out a bit more, definitely don't put it in a small shallow pot this spring. You could work the roots a bit, but then plant it back in a larger container (best would be something wide and not too deep, like an anderson flat) or the ground. Do you have a picture?

 

[Deci22]

here's a picture if that helps...hard to see, sorry about that ( lots of shadows )

 

[Deci22]

Good news - red maples are also quite tough and vigorous plants. If you want to grow it out a bit more, definitely don't put it in a small shallow pot this spring. You could work the roots a bit, but then plant it back in a larger container (best would be something wide and not too deep, like an anderson flat) or the ground. Do you have a picture?

Thank goodness for that! LOL it just looks so fragile!

 

[Deci22]

Good news - red maples are also quite tough and vigorous plants. If you want to grow it out a bit more, definitely don't put it in a small shallow pot this spring. You could work the roots a bit, but then plant it back in a larger container (best would be something wide and not too deep, like an anderson flat) or the ground. Do you have a picture?

Perfect! I have 2 flats that i ordered because i was thinking to put my elm in one to bulk it up...yeah i was thinking a wide shallow container, not like a bonsai pot

 

[dbonsaiw]

it just looks so fragile!

Acer Rubrum isn't exactly fragile. There are some great threads here on development of this species. I learned a lot from ABCarve - check out his posts on this tree. Little bit different than working with a Japanese maple as it tends to have internodes and petioles that aren't always bonsai friendly in smaller specimens. Much of the advice I received was to go a little larger with this tree. And it airlayers fairly easy.

 

[Ininaatigoons]

6' tall is a great place to start! It's ready to explode! I bet there will be some serious root work ahead from the pot it's in. Anderson Flat is a good idea also. Remember to plant at an angle. A little hard to imagine this 6' maybe 9' next year tree at a sharp angle, but should be ok with some weight, leverage, and or tie downs. Remember to wire in. Once the roots are corrected and it's growing vigorously you can do the air layers. Man I wish my wife would come home with a 6' tree! You got a good spouse there. I'm just happy that she likes how my trees look and doesn't resent my hobby and time invested. LOL! Anyways Acer Rubrum are beautiful trees and a great start to the Maple Collection. Have you thought about the eventual size and girth? Rubrums can make big leaves and internodes, but they grow trally fast. 2' a year average?

 

[Deci22]

6' tall is a great place to start! It's ready to explode! I bet there will be some serious root work ahead from the pot it's in. Anderson Flat is a good idea also. Remember to plant at an angle. A little hard to imagine this 6' maybe 9' next year tree at a sharp angle, but should be ok with some weight, leverage, and or tie downs. Remember to wire in. Once the roots are corrected and it's growing vigorously you can do the air layers. Man I wish my wife would come home with a 6' tree! You got a good spouse there. I'm just happy that she likes how my trees look and doesn't resent my hobby and time invested. LOL! Anyways Acer Rubrum are beautiful trees and a great start to the Maple Collection. Have you thought about the eventual size and girth? Rubrums can make big leaves and internodes, but they grow trally fast. 2' a year average?

I'm super excited. I look at it and see 3 trees, lol. So I can't wait to air layer it

 

[Ininaatigoons]

You can probably get many more. I'm not an air layering pro. Only a few attempts and they worked except one that I cut too deep. But I'm not sure if you can do more than one per branch at a time. Or in this instance the trunk. So year 1 is the top. More will grow and the branches will grow more this year. Year 2 a little further down. Not 100% sure, but If this is the case you will be layering for a while.

 

[Kanorin]

If you are airlayering mainly for practice, sure go nuts, but I don't see much in the top of this tree that is super interesting.

 

[penumbra]

I agree that the top hardly merits layering, but that is your choice. I can walk through my woods, or nearly any woods around here and find them all over the place.
Personally, I would put some movement in that trunk, cut it back hard, and plant it in a large shallow pot to grow it out a couple years and then re-evaluating what you have and where you are going with it.
There is almost nothing tougher than Acer rubrum. When I was the staff horticulturist for a large developer they were used pretty extensively along larger roadways because they never died and always gave 100%. I remember one tree (3" caliper) that was run over by a vehicle. It was laying flat with much of its root system torn away. I staked it up, put a gator bag on it, and it not only survived, it thrived. This dispite the fact that the bark was missing 60% around the trunk at about 18 inches above ground level. The tree is still growing well today after more than 20 years.

 

[Deci22]

I agree that the top hardly merits layering, but that is your choice. I can walk through my woods, or nearly any woods around here and find them all over the place.
Personally, I would put some movement in that trunk, cut it back hard, and plant it in a large shallow pot to grow it out a couple years and then re-evaluating what you have and where you are going with it.
There is almost nothing tougher than Acer rubrum. When I was the staff horticulturist for a large developer they were used pretty extensively along larger roadways because they never died and always gave 100%. I remember one tree (3" caliper) that was run over by a vehicle. It was laying flat with much of its root system torn away. I staked it up, put a gator bag on it, and it not only survived, it thrived. This dispite the fact that the bark was missing 60% around the trunk at about 18 inches above ground level. The tree is still growing well today after more than 20

It's mainly for practice I don't expect anything amazing, just a learning experience.

 

[penumbra]

It's mainly for practice I don't expect anything amazing, just a learning experience.

Don't sell yourself or the plant short. It ha plenty of potential.

 

[19Mateo83]

I'm super excited. I look at it and see 3 trees, lol. So I can't wait to air layer it

Me too, I see four. Just start working your way down the trunk one at a time. I have a October glory red maple that I take small air layers from. I’ve air layered branches as thin as 1/4 inch

 

[Deci22]

Me too, I see four. Just start working your way down the trunk one at a time. I have a October glory red maple that I take small air layers from. I’ve air layered branches as thin as 1/4 inch
View attachment 469317

Yeah I didnt see that 3rd from the top! thanks! I wish spring would hurry up!

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Some good advice giving here . @penumbra @19Mateo83 . For my money you should be able to find more easily . So air layer is not really drastically needed . Visa visa more materiel . If it was mine and considering . Learning curve of novice . East to find info on planting the tree on a board it tile . To force the tree to grow roots latterly . Repot in spring into the ground or a larger flat box . Anderson flat . Using the complete tree . ( a tree that tall I would not use a Anderson flat to un stable ) for bonsai learning . Better in a box to learn to water and take care of the tree . Again learning . Train wire bend shape . Apply some basic technique . To the top part of the tree . The apical dominance of the teee will help the top . Develop strongly . As I see it you basically have 2 trees . Eventually air layer the top you develop as a second tree . Tree number 1 is chop everything above the third. Branch from the base . The base is the tree after it has developed some trunk size . . This gives you practical learning experience . And 2 trees eventually . Don’t allow the low branches to grow very much . But save them for latter . Train the top . Allow everything in the middle grow un retrained . Don’t care branching to course I. The middle . It’s all sacrificial . Hope this helps

 

[HorseloverFat]

Lots of good advice flying around here...

This is one of the species I know the most about ...

I agree, I think it was @penumbra that was talking Bout movement.

You'll need to go thickER.. like 3.0
And run two wires, so it looks like a barbershop poll.... Then bend... A little at a time, and wait..

A little at a time... And wait....

Over a day or two...

The problem here, is, as northern hemisphere heads towards spring... You'll have to watch those wires CLOSE
..maybe even wire AGAIN, mid-summer.

 

[Ininaatigoons]

Maybe sooner than that! I marked a bloodgood in 6 weeks! Wiring during 1st flush... Lucky for me it's a graft and I'll get some layers off it. Maples grow fast and mark quick.

 

[andrewiles]

Here's one thing to consider if you are willing to draw this out a few years. I like to play with maple nursery material as well. When I get a young tree that I know is too lanky for a single bonsai, or that is grafted and needs to be moved to its own roots, I will wire all branches that I can successfully bend and treat each branch as a future air layer a few years down the road. Once a branch gets too thick there isn't much you can do with it if it doesn't already have movement. So best to add movement to anything you can now, while you can, and then find fun pieces to air layer off later. That assumes you enjoy the challenge of air layering, etc. Not for everyone.

Here's a simple example from this fall. I picked up a small acer palmatum cultivar with long, straight growth, and a graft. I just wired up random movement wherever it was possible. No plan really. I'll then let it flush out, remove the wire, and repeat each year for a few years. During each repeat cycle I'll start to think above design for each future layer: remove bar branches, coordinate branch movement, etc. After a few iterations you'll be able to air layer off side branches, the apex, and so on with enough movement to make a few good trees from your original material. And they'll all get there pretty fast because they'll be doing that growth on the larger rootstock of your 6 foot tree.

Small nursery palmatum. Maybe 5 feet tall. Not a lot going on here that looks like a bonsai:


After wiring for random movement. See that I couldn't bend the lower and middle trunk, since it was already too stiff. So I just ignored it and won't use in any future air layers.


End result of this process after a few years. This is a different layer from this Fall, but is basically air layering off the lower left branch above a few years from now. That is in a 10" wide pond basket for context:


Good luck with your project.

 

[Deci22]

Wow! thank you guys for all this direction! love it! This is definately a few year project, lol. So far I'm just letting it grow. I did end up wiring a few of the branches for some movement, my biggest concern was the top hitting the overhang on the balcony LOL, so I may need to layer the top part soonish. I suppose if i let it grow, it will naturally get a bend haha.