Nursery Seiju Elm Progression

[RMJoe]

Picked up this Seiju Elm from a local nursery last fall - it was neglected in a back corner and well priced as a result. Chopped back pretty harshly and repotted into a (too) large bonsai pot. These bud out profusely everywhere, so put on a good number of branches over the year - just wired it out at leaf drop and lightly trimmed back some of the more vigorous tips. Still a ways to go on developing the primary branches, but what do you guys think so far? I like the primary trunk line, but the large sub-trunk branches I am not so sure about since they don't have great movement or taper. I'd love to get opinions on future direction.

 

[Colorado]

Those neglected trees in a back corner of a nursery….great find! Looking really good so far

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I think your instincts are correct - that the large secondary branches detract from, instead of add to, the design. As long as you are getting buds to pop on the lower trunk, I would remove those branches entirely. Then I would shorten the apex slighting - to the first wired branch on the top left - and see where you are after a few years.

 

[River's Edge]

Nice material to begin with. I would suggest the following. Shorten apex to red line retaining branching at that level. Remove the thicker straight portion on the uppermost thick branch, retaining the slender one. Remove the lower thick branch entirely!
Now it may be worthwhile to air layer a portion of the thickest lowest branch before removing entirely. Personal choice.

When I expand the picture the trunk and branches have more taper and movement than is readily visible with normal size photos. Taking this approach will allow you to decide on further reduction later if you so decide. Just a consideration of another option. Photo below should reflect my comments above.

 

[BrianBay9]

I see two trees. The first starts at the base and uses the first right branch as the new trunk. The second tree is air layered just above the first branch on the right then follow the recommendations from BNut or Rivers Edge.

 

[RMJoe]

Nice material to begin with. I would suggest the following. Shorten apex to red line retaining branching at that level. Remove the thicker straight portion on the uppermost thick branch, retaining the slender one. Remove the lower thick branch entirely!
Now it may be worthwhile to air layer a portion of the thickest lowest branch before removing entirely. Personal choice.

When I expand the picture the trunk and branches have more taper and movement than is readily visible with normal size photos. Taking this approach will allow you to decide on further reduction later if you so decide. Just a consideration of another option. Photo below should reflect my comments above.

Thanks @River's Edge , I am leaning towards this as well. I may end up following @Bonsai Nut's advice to remove both further down the line, but I am a bit wary to completely remove for now. With some thick wire I may be able to get the thinner upper branch to get some movement and better position after removing the thicker pieces, perhaps something like this. I like that structure once the rest of the canopy fills out over the next few seasons - and maybe the very low trunk/branch on the right can fill the new negative space. Much to consider.

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks @River's Edge , I am leaning towards this as well. I may end up following @Bonsai Nut's advice to remove both further down the line, but I am a bit wary to completely remove for now. With some thick wire I may be able to get the thinner upper branch to get some movement and better position after removing the thicker pieces, perhaps something like this. I like that structure once the rest of the canopy fills out over the next few seasons - and maybe the very low trunk/branch on the right can fill the new negative space. Much to consider.

Elm are difficult to wire at best of times. I would focus on cut back and redirecting new shoots in areas for new direction or movement. Unless the branches are very thin and supple. They never seem to break in the spot you would have chosen for cutback.

 

[coh]

I suggest you think long and hard before removing that low large branch. I see an intriguing design that could incorporate that, using something like photo 3 as the front. You could have one apex based off that piece and then another based off the long/tall trunk. IMO your virt in post 6 will lead to a boring tree plus you're creating a big slingshot/Y right in the middle. Embrace the unique opportunity the material presents.

Edit to add - photo 4 could work as a front as well. You might want to explore tilting the tree to one side or the other as well.

 

[RMJoe]

I suggest you think long and hard before removing that low large branch. I see an intriguing design that could incorporate that, using something like photo 3 as the front. You could have one apex based off that piece and then another based off the long/tall trunk. IMO your virt in post 6 will lead to a boring tree plus you're creating a big slingshot/Y right in the middle. Embrace the unique opportunity the material presents.

Edit to add - photo 4 could work as a front as well. You might want to explore tilting the tree to one side or the other as well.

This is what I'm struggling with for sure, many of these pieces have major flaws but without them the tree loses a lot of the character. Right now I am leaning towards a slight angle change, removing the lower piece and keeping both parts of the big upper branch for now, but I will have to ruminate for a while on it. There are a few small branches down there that are hard to see in the photos which could possibly the void from the big branch that I will let run this next season and see from there.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I think your instincts are correct - that the large secondary branches detract from, instead of add to, the design. As long as you are getting buds to pop on the lower trunk, I would remove those branches entirely. Then I would shorten the apex slighting - to the first wired branch on the top left - and see where you are after a few years.

Agreed. You can grow all new branches next year, which can be shaped with wire and have taper with pruning.
Nice trunk, put some nice branches on it.

 

[TN_Jim]

not sure the size of this tree is coming through in the images, especially with that big pot
this tree is a beast, seems like base is it over 3” and was initially at least 3’ tall
good things here, thanks

 

[John P.]

I’d keep that lowest branch and let it grow for a long time to correct the inverse taper.

Nice find!

 

[RMJoe]

I’d keep that lowest branch and let it grow for a long time to correct the inverse taper.

Nice find!

I agree 100%, that is initially why I left it (though now considering it in the design). The inverse taper looks worse in the photos because of the moss on the nebari (I keep forgetting to spray it with vinegar), but it is definitely there. I'm hoping that growing out that branch and spreading out the roots during repotting to get more flare at the base will fix it.