Now, what have we got here (guessing the cultivar of a red Japanese maple)?

[Yamamomiji]

I found myself lucky in acquiring this Japanese maple over rock in the winter a few months back.
It comes from a liquidation of a collection and it was just labelled as an ordinary Acer palmatum (which it clearly is not).

Now, when the buds came through and finally broke I had some pretty colourful red in front of me but I doubt that it is something of the more common Deshojo.
Browsing through the Vertrees' Japanese maple book, I found some matches but still unsure.

This tree is still a young one I guess, which left the state of primary design some time ago and now the journey goes on with the branching. The leaves are quite uneven in size for now, some balancing will come in time I guess. The leaf in the last picture is nearly 11 cm in width, whereas the others are smaller, more at about 4 - 6 cm.

From my point of view, it might be some sort of Atropurpureum, Fireglow, Oregon Sunset, and I do not expect any turning green and the red is of a darker tone (compared to my flaming pink/rosé Beni Chidori).

What would you guess?

 

[Gabler]

If you don't know the cultivar, then the variety is just Acer palmatum. There's really no point in guessing. Enjoy the tree for what it is, not what it's called.

 

[Yamamomiji]

@Gabler
That goes without saying. I am enjoying the tree regardless of its name but out of curiosity it would be nice to know.

 

[Cadillactaste]

@Gabler
That goes without saying. I am enjoying the tree regardless of its name but out of curiosity it would be nice to know.

It's dang near impossible... if a JM comes without an ID. It's a Japanese maple of unknown cultivar....or Japanese maple. There are to many variables...to properly ID it. To many cultivars...and just sun exposure, fertilizer regiment and what not. That can change appearance of leaf shade.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

@Gabler
That goes without saying. I am enjoying the tree regardless of its name but out of curiosity it would be nice to know.

Without provenance, there is no way to know. It could even be a seedling. That doesn't mean that it isn't beautiful or valuable, just that you can't guess a cultivar by appearance. It would be one thing if you said "I got two Japanese maples from a nursery, one was 'X' and the other was 'Y' but the tags fell off... can you help me determine which is which?" But in this case you have nowhere to start - and don't even really know if it is a cultivar at all. The one thing you don't want to do is "guess". We are having tons of issues here in the US with trees floating around that people say are one cultivar - when it is pretty clear that they are not. People buy them, start to propagate, and the next thing you know you have multiple versions of the same cultivar being sold - and it becomes an issue trying to determine which one is "real".

 

[Yamamomiji]

Thank you so much for your replies.
Let's see then, how the tree develops over time and if some clues are given.
For now I enjoy the foliage and the vigour to a healthy growing year.

 

[SeanS]

Even with more clues a definite cultivar name can’t be given to any Japanese maple without provenance or history.

 

[SeanS]

Thread 'One of these Seigens is not like the other...'

Mar 25, 2025

I've spoken with several JM nurserymen here on the east coast about how 'east coast Seigens' are not the same as 'west coast Seigens'. Thought I would share pics of what I'm talking about:

East Coast Seigen (four grafted trees from reputable nursery on East Coast). I've had these trees since spring, 2024. Growing in my maple soil mix.




West Coast Seigen (two grafted trees from reputable nursery on West Coast). I've had these trees since spring, 2023. Growing in my maple soil mix.




Side by side...


Anyone else have a...

• Bonsai Nut
• Replies: 37
• Forum: Maples

• 
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[minkes]

If you plant 1,000 Japanese maple seeds, some may have different leaf colors and even leaf shapes. But it's still a common acer palmatum, even though it may resemble a cultivar. If you want cultivar, you must buy it or take cutting or graft from one. Else it is just an acer palmatum. But I love this variability of JM seedlings. It's fun to find a few gems among the many common ones.

 

[just.wing.it]

If you lived near me, it would be safe to say it's a seed from a Bloodgood. Those things are everywhere here. However, even Bloodgood seeds sometimes are green leafed.

 

[Yamamomiji]

Thank you also for your additional comments and information.

If I might have given you the impression of only carrying about names rather than the tree, I am sorry, that was not my intention.

I was not aware, that Japanese maples even from the same source can differ so greatly. Let's see then, what the year brings with this one.

I have found another very interesting maple in a garden right next to my house with lime green summer colour and some white variegation on rather dwarf leaves (will open another thread at some time).

So I guess, without doing some genetical analysis, one might never find out exactly.

Thank you!
@just.wing.it I thought so too.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

You can send a sample for dna testing if you really want to know.

 

[Cadillactaste]

You can send a sample for dna testing if you really want to know.

I thought Greg said there was none for JM in his thread. ... he sent away for a different species. But couldn't for JM.

 

[minkes]

Thank you also for your additional comments and information.

If I might have given you the impression of only carrying about names rather than the tree, I am sorry, that was not my intention.

I was not aware, that Japanese maples even from the same source can differ so greatly. Let's see then, what the year brings with this one.

I have found another very interesting maple in a garden right next to my house with lime green summer colour and some white variegation on rather dwarf leaves (will open another thread at some time).

So I guess, without doing some genetical analysis, one might never find out exactly.

Thank you!
@just.wing.it I thought so too.

Few years ago I also didn’t know about this variations in JM seedlings. We are all still learning

 

[Orion_metalhead]

I thought Greg said there was none for JM in his thread. ... he sent away for a different species. But couldn't for JM.

Oh yeah? Did not know that to be the case.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Oh yeah? Did not know that to be the case.

Well...I was drugged pretty heavy for my lungs. I'm weaning off. But I swear I read that in his thread on Seigen.

 

[Piedmont Bonsai]

You can send a sample for dna testing if you really want to know.

There would need to be a database for the DNA sequence of every Japanese maple cultivar for this to be possible.
A very cool idea but i don’t think anyone aside from us plant nerds cares enough about this to make it happen.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Oh yeah? Did not know that to be the case.

Screenshot of second page of Greg's thread on Seigen.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Great info. Never figured that would be the case.

I guess you could check against a verifiable source to confirm. I feel like its a worthwhile endeavor, even going back to the *gasp* procumbens scale/needld foliage debate.

 

[Yamamomiji]

What great info in the aftermath. Thank you for all contributions.
Meanwhile I have found a another slip that says 'Nomura' as a cultivar. But I have to say, whatever it is, as long as the tree grows well, that is more of my concern.
And that I have found out, that the rich variety of this species is even hard to track by modern science (so far).