New the forum - I have questions I can't seem to find straight forward answers to on Goole.

hidefrom_sun

Seedling
Messages
15
Reaction score
1
Location
Yorkshire UK
USDA Zone
9b
First of all - what a great hobby. I was recently diagnosed with ADHD and have been making a lot of changes to my life. It's a bit shit waiting till 35 and having to pay fully private. It's killing my spare income but both myself and friends have family have seen a night and day difference iAfter reading about the symptoms it read lke a story of my life. Anyways - I score very high on subjective and objective testing. It answered a lot about my previous behaviour.

I thought awareness and medication would stop the insane ideas I used to get and would quickly get bored of. It turns out it's the opposite. I get the insane ideas and actually follow them trough and maintain consistency and work hard at them. At first it was house plants... my house is like a small rainforest. Anyways that moved onto a new one found interest in Bonsai trees - it's really helping me to learn the satisfaction from delayed gratification.

I need to read and study a fair bit but started collecting straight away. Within a month I have 7 Japanese Maples and two Chinese Junipers. All nursery stock but not grafted and looking healthy a few weeks on. It's also cheap so I can experiment a little even if I keep of a few. Thanks.

- My first question is on reference material. I'm in love with Maples. Are there any books or links you can suggest about raising plants from from saplings into fully grown bonsais and the decisions/methods I can employ along the way so I don't make rookie mistakes? (not just for Maples but rules/guidelines to achieve specific styles on many plants - knowledge between sapling and fully fledged bonsai feels lacking on the internet.)

The internet doesn't always have definitive answers and are often contradictory. I'm for instance trying to create a Chinese Juniper cascade. I'm really stuck with how to wire the branching leading up the apex and heading down the cascade to look natural. I'm assuming gravity will pull the main branches off the cascade down initially but the plants need for sunshine would great a bow shape - I could be completely mistaken

- My general knowledge is lacking as to how trees grow and what structures they form in different environments. I pay a lot more attention outside now as to how trees have formed and take lots of reference images but again... Too much to learn and keep up with!

- Has anyone bought from Herons Bonsai? I'm going to buy 5 Japanese Maple saplings from them but I'm not sure if their stems/trunks will be too developed to wire and add movement/more interesting shapes for later in it's life.

- I'm going to get a half developed Japanese Bonsai to get some experience on an older plants whilst looking after my younger plants. Again I'm after books on Japanese forms/types so they follow tradition and I care for them properly.

- On that note when can I possibly get older stock for free? Our in nature? Again... books needed 🤷‍♂️ I don't wanna be killing it off. Air layering my be a good option outside. It'd be nice to have a local British bonsai!

- What tools are important to buy initially? I believe in buying cheap, buying twice so I'm willing spend a little more money on them

- Final question I promise hah! The cascade main trunk on the tunio proving difficult to bend. I've taken to doubling/tripling up my 3mm wire. How much stronger is copper wire? I have some more 3mm aluminium wire and 3mm copped.

I'll post my image elsewhere of my first wiring job so feel free to look and tear it to pieace@
 
Herons is a good reliable source. Good luck with this great hobby.
 
I'll take a stab at a few answers.

There are a few books out there on JMs--this one is probably one of the most comprehensive (and it's expensive)

This one's pretty good too. It's old, but the design info remains very good


One of the best things you can do is to start with more advanced material. It will teach more in a year than saplings will in 10. Growing things out from seed/etc. with an aim to make them bonsai is mostly futile if you're looking to actually DO bonsai. That kind of material will take a decade (probably more) to become something worth making into bonsai. In the meantime, if you have nothing else, you wait and the trees simply grow.

Don't invest money in tools for a year at least. Scissors, regular tree pruners and etc. will get you through. Tools are accumulated as you move through the hobby. Buying the most expensive up front (or the cheapest) really doesn't make any difference at first. A year or two down the road, when you decided if bonsai is worth it to you (and you may find it isn't--happens all the time) you won't have sunk $120 into a stainless steel concave cutter you can't use.

Put off collecting from the wild. It requires a different set of skills (unless you're just pulling up saplings and seedlings) than bonsai. You have to learn aftercare (digging a tree up is the easy part) post-collection.
 
Wiring tutorial, worth signing up to watch:

Tools: scissors, wire cutter, and concave (or spherical concave) cutters are mandatory bonsai starter tools.
 
Welcome to the forum - it's a great place!

I'm guessing you're in the UK? whereabouts?

It's always good to visit bonsai nurseries, a few in the UK i've bought from and would recommend:

Beechfield (Telford) - highly recommended!
Walsall Bonsai (Walsall - appointment only)
Greenwood (Nottingham)
All Things Bonsai (Sheffield)

I've also bought trees online from:
Shoka
Zero Bonsai
Derbyshire Bonsai

There's a guy, Brad, on ebay as something like 'curlyleatherskanga' he has loads of part trained stumps of british field grown stuff at reasonable prices.

I've got a couple of books - Bonsai Inspirations (1 & 2) by Harry Harrington are great for practical advice on the horticultural side and i've found 'Literati Style Penjing' and 'Principles of Bonsai Design' (2nd edition) to be mind blowing in terms of the artistic side of things.

Have you got a garden? If you have, I can almost guarantee you'll have a couple of free cotoneaster growing.

P.s. stick your location and USDA zone in your profile as bonsai advice can be very climate specific.
 
Mention of Herons leads me to guess you are in the UK. Please add a location to your profile because bonsai practices are highly seasonal and we are a worldwide community. Having your location pop up every time you post saves us guessing, remembering every member or giving advice that does not take your local climate into consideration.

Now to some of your questions/ observations.
The internet doesn't always have definitive answers and are often contradictory
You are likely young and have not heard of peer reviewed science. Anyone can post anything on the internet whether it's true or not. Real information has been checked and rechecked by several independent researchers. The internet is full of wild theories and guesses.

Some of the discrepancy in bonsai advice devolves from different seasons and climates. What's right for tropical growers won't work for cooler climate bonsai. Look for advice from similar climates as yours for better accuracy.
Some is just internet. Newbies can't wait to post, even if they don't have experience. Bonsai is a long term project. Sometimes it takes many years before we recognise that what seemed a good idea is not really appropriate. Look for authors who have longer experience and the trees to match their rhetoric.
The best I can offer is search widely. Compare advice and look for general trends. The more often you see something, the more likely it is to be accurate Also look for longer term posters with longer experience.
My first question is on reference material. I'm in love with Maples. Are there any books or links you can suggest about raising plants from from saplings into fully grown bonsais and the decisions/methods I can employ along the way so I don't make rookie mistakes?
Andrea Meriggioli has published one of the best books on Japanese maples available. His climate should be similar to yours so translate directly to your circumstances.
Please be aware that JM are not the best species to start with. Trident maple is much easier to grow and responds much better to pruning and all other bonsai techniques. My advice is start with tridents and graduate to JM when you have developed the skills.

Has anyone bought from Herons Bonsai? I'm going to buy 5 Japanese Maple saplings from them but I'm not sure if their stems/trunks will be too developed to wire and add movement/more interesting shapes for later in it's life.
Thousands of people have bought from Herons. That's why they are still in business. Whether the trees you purchase are able to be bent depends on which you buy. Bending is not the only shaping option available for deciduous. I find that pruning is way superior to wiring for most deciduous but if you are in a hurry or aspire to mallsai then wiring is a great option.

On that note when can I possibly get older stock for free? Our in nature?
Collecting is a great option to get hold of better stock. Collecting from nature is not always possible. You don't own the land those trees are growing on so have no right. Some places you can ask for permission. Some places are better left for all to enjoy. Gardens are a much better source of material. Permission is easier. less risk of fines or incarceration for stealing plants.. Take every opportunity to mention you are interested in bonsai and stupid enough to dig up plants. Good sources are home owners renovating the garden; rebuilding or extending homes and new areas being developed. You may even be lucky enough to get machines to dig your trees for you while they do the job.

Final question I promise hah! The cascade main trunk on the tunio proving difficult to bend. I've taken to doubling/tripling up my 3mm wire. How much stronger is copper wire? I have some more 3mm aluminium wire and 3mm copped.
Copper is probably about twice as strong as Al. There are many who advise one for evergreen and the other for deciduous which is crap. Wire holds or does not. Use larger Al or smaller Cu. The advantage of thicker Al is that it does not mark the bark as quick but I prefer to use copper for the holding power with less diameter.
The real question is more likely are you using the right thickness to achieve the bend you need. Just get some thicker Al wire.
 
Welcome to the forum - it's a great place!

I'm guessing you're in the UK? whereabouts?

It's always good to visit bonsai nurseries, a few in the UK i've bought from and would recommend:

Beechfield (Telford) - highly recommended!
Walsall Bonsai (Walsall - appointment only)
Greenwood (Nottingham)
All Things Bonsai (Sheffield)

I've also bought trees online from:
Shoka
Zero Bonsai
Derbyshire Bonsai

There's a guy, Brad, on ebay as something like 'curlyleatherskanga' he has loads of part trained stumps of british field grown stuff at reasonable prices.

I've got a couple of books - Bonsai Inspirations (1 & 2) by Harry Harrington are great for practical advice on the horticultural side and i've found 'Literati Style Penjing' and 'Principles of Bonsai Design' (2nd edition) to be mind blowing in terms of the artistic side of things.

Have you got a garden? If you have, I can almost guarantee you'll have a couple of free cotoneaster growing.

P.s. stick your location and USDA zone in your profile as bonsai advice can be very climate specific.
Brilliant, I've looked at a lot of those nurseries, I've been hunting for maple stock in garden centres.

I'lll definitely have a look into the books and change my area. I don't have a garden, we have a large patio so everything will have to be grown out in containers.

I live near a lot of woodland so some yamadori might be an option... they're close enough for me to air later some interesting specimens, I know that's still not kosher but I ain't taking a whole tree at least!
 
Back
Top Bottom