New greenhouse/cold storage purchase for new home…

[stewarjm192]

Hey nuts!

My wife and I just signed a contract to buy a new home, probably with a move in date in October. One of the first things we will need to do is figure out our cold storage for the winter and get it prepped for the oncoming winter. Here in upstate NY, we are zone 5b.

A few years ago, we built a cold frame w/treated lumber that’s about 8x12x10. We built it about 6in into the ground, and each year wrap it in 6mil painters plastic. We place heat mats on the ground and the one bench in the structure, as well as run a small space heater, all attached to a thermometer controlled outlet. I set it so that the heating elements turn on when the temps get below 36F degrees. This process has resulted in a cold frame that even on the coldest days never dips below about 25F. It has allowed us to grow things that we love, that wouldn’t survive our cold.

We have been looking for bigger structures, with more permanent plastic walls to reduce waste, and have a greenhouse structure we can utilize for propagating and triage sitting the summer months.

We have been looking at the following kit from Home Depot:

Cedar frame greenhouse

What sort of solutions have you all found for this project? We have been through this rodeo a few times so we know the perils of ventilation. We certainly would like a more aesthetically pleasing option, but functional is paramount, and we’d love it to serve both as cold frame and as summer green house.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I know this is apples/oranges, but I was looking at one of these, particularly because last year they were running a sale for $4500 or so...

https://www.costco.com/yardline-upton-12-x-24-wood-shed--do-it-yourself-or-pro-installed.product.4000247686.html

The shed is completely configurable, and you can place the double doors/single door wherever you want. It comes with 2 fixed loft windows, and 3 operable windows - but they are willing to customize your order to toss in an extra window. I saw a lot of potential in it. If you wanted more light, you could always install a couple of skylights, but I'm not sure it would be needed.

For a cold frame, your greatest enemy is heat, not cold. I find that greenhouses are almost always too hot for me - both in winter and in summer - to be used as a true work shed. But I also don't live in upstate NY. This shed would be easy to vent, and you could insulate it if you so desired. It would also be very easy to install a pergola over the double doors so you had shade coverage to work beneath.

 

[stewarjm192]

I know this is apples/oranges, but I was looking at one of these, particularly because last year they were running a sale for $4500 or so...

https://www.costco.com/yardline-upton-12-x-24-wood-shed--do-it-yourself-or-pro-installed.product.4000247686.html

The shed is completely configurable, and you can place the double doors/single door wherever you want. It comes with 2 fixed loft windows, and 3 operable windows - but they are willing to customize your order to toss in an extra window. I saw a lot of potential in it. If you wanted more light, you could always install a couple of skylights, but I'm not sure it would be needed.

For a cold frame, your greatest enemy is heat, not cold. I find that greenhouses are almost always too hot for me - both in winter and in summer - to be used as a true work shed. But I also don't live in upstate NY. This shed would be easy to vent, and you could insulate it if you so desired. It would also be very easy to install a pergola over the double doors so you had shade coverage to work beneath.

Yes! certainly heat is the killer! ive lost a number of trees this way, either to my own lack of knowledge, or to a tree sitter that just does not understand that a plastic greenhouse will get up to 100 degrees in early april easily......ahhh...the larch ive lost!


I think maybe something like this may be the ideal course. The house WE are moving to has a pretty massive shed on property already, maybe with a little insulation, and a little extra heat, it may just do the trick, and maybe dedicate the greenhouse to tropicals

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Looks just like the one I got from Costco last year although a bit longer:

Thread 'My greenhouse is coming!'

Apr 7, 2024

For a couple of years now I have been considering buying a greenhouse. The regular mid-winter warm spells followed by returns to freezing conditions, along with the roller coaster temperature swings has convinced me that I either have to have a way to get my trees through the winter without doing the bonsai shuffle or leave the hobby. Then I saw the Yardistry greenhouses being sold widely in the US through Costco. After watching several YouTube videos on the construction process, yes these come as a kit, I decided on the 8’ x 9’ 8 3/4” version. Then I had to wait a couple of months for...

• WNC Bonsai
• Replies: 31
• Forum: General Discussion

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I put mine in an area under deciduous trees so it gets plenty of sun in winter and shade in summer. In summer I only use it for shade loving plants and cuttings. I’ll be adding a post to my thread on how I heat it soon. BTW it stood up to the 60+mph winds of Hurricane Helene without any damage at all, make sure to secure it to the ground.

I have a couple of construction tips:

(1) The main ridge beam is 2 pieces, you join together with screws. Make sure to apply a line of caulk between them or you’ll get annoying leaks. Doesn’t sound like a problem until you hook up an electric heater and lights, etc.
(2). The roof vents are poorly designed as the “glass” sits in slots in the frame and water collects in there then flows back into the greenhouse. I drilled drain holes in the frame above the “glass”. Otherwise I’ve been very happy with it.

 

[Dav4]

In your climate, greenhouses would be great for extending the growing season both in the spring and fall, but overwintering can be tricky both with heating and mitigating unwanted heat gain. I know people do it successfully but have lots of infrastructure built in to the greenhouse to make it work,,, keeping the temps in a greenhouse between 27 F and 38 F continuously from late December until early March isn't easy!

 

[River's Edge]

Yes! certainly heat is the killer! ive lost a number of trees this way, either to my own lack of knowledge, or to a tree sitter that just does not understand that a plastic greenhouse will get up to 100 degrees in early april easily......ahhh...the larch ive lost!


I think maybe something like this may be the ideal course. The house WE are moving to has a pretty massive shed on property already, maybe with a little insulation, and a little extra heat, it may just do the trick, and maybe dedicate the greenhouse to tropicals

If time is an issue, it may be worthwhile to consider a temporary setup within the existing large shed for the first winter. Sometimes when we move there is a lot to sort out in a short time frame.

 

[stewarjm192]

If time is an issue, it may be worthwhile to consider a temporary setup within the existing large shed for the first winter. Sometimes when we move there is a lot to sort out in a short time frame.

This may be the way to go, I just have ALOT of trees, even for the large Shed at the new place lol, and I dont want to rot the floor out from shoveling snow in there for water....so certainly some things to work out.. I just have to be more mindful of the more sensitive items, shohin, black pine, maples and such that cant handle unbridled northeast winter lol. The larch and Thuja wont bat an eye, Spruce will perform will I imagine as well, but you know how things go when things get smaller

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Check out Nigel Saunders videos on YouTube. He has been using a glass greenhouse in Ontario for some time now and has good recommendations. I based my heating decisions on his advice. It took me about a month to get my greenhouse kit built and a lot of that was preparing the foundation.

 

[River's Edge]

This may be the way to go, I just have ALOT of trees, even for the large Shed at the new place lol, and I dont want to rot the floor out from shoveling snow in there for water....so certainly some things to work out.. I just have to be more mindful of the more sensitive items, shohin, black pine, maples and such that cant handle unbridled northeast winter lol. The larch and Thuja wont bat an eye, Spruce will perform will I imagine as well, but you know how things go when things get smaller

If the existing shed has higher walls that allows for creative shelving solutions, particularly for smaller trees. Due attention to circulation of course. My new greenhouse was selected with higher sides for just that purpose. Adjustable shelving really increased the storage capacity for winter time. Even one extra layer with 18 inches of height can house a lot more smaller trees.

 

[Russ1]

I just have to be more mindful of the more sensitive items, shohin, black pine, maples and such that cant handle unbridled northeast winter

I know you are a bit colder than I am but I have had a JBP grown from a 1 gal pot now in a 1/2 wine barrel and stands around 6 feet in the barrel for over 30' years outside with winter winds blowing directly at it with no ill affects so far, so I think any protection will help. Maples should be hardy but the main issue I have found is the wind chill on the pots will damage the roots, I killed one in a nursery pot, not protected, years ago when we had an early cold spell in November around 28 deg with a lot of wind. I don't bother to heat my poly greenhouse, I just use it to protect plants from the wind, it's been -9 deg. in there but some Azaleas, Box Woods, Catlin Elms I will put in my attic in a window or under the skylight for the winter. The attic can get down to 3 deg but mostly mid 30's to mid 40's.

 

[stewarjm192]

I know you are a bit colder than I am but I have had a JBP grown from a 1 gal pot now in a 1/2 wine barrel and stands around 6 feet in the barrel for over 30' years outside with winter winds blowing directly at it with no ill affects so far, so I think any protection will help. Maples should be hardy but the main issue I have found is the wind chill on the pots will damage the roots, I killed one in a nursery pot, not protected, years ago when we had an early cold spell in November around 28 deg with a lot of wind. I don't bother to heat my poly greenhouse, I just use it to protect plants from the wind, it's been -9 deg. in there but some Azaleas, Box Woods, Catlin Elms I will put in my attic in a window or under the skylight for the winter. The attic can get down to 3 deg but mostly mid 30's to mid 40's.

Most of my trees are in bonsai pots, so I tend not to take any risks with them, for example, this winter, my cold frames lowest temp was about 23 degrees, when it was sub-zero outside. I try to keep things where the most senstive will be happy, and the most durable will have it easy lol

 

[Russ1]

Most of my trees are in bonsai pots, so I tend not to take any risks with them, for example, this winter, my cold frames lowest temp was about 23 degrees

Mine are as well. Last winter it got to -9 deg here in the Greenhouse and I had most of my trees in Bonsai pots but also had more than a dozen JBTs 1 yr old and 3, 4 yr old JBTs in clay pots with no issue. Also had some of my trees for many years in Nick Lenz pots as well as others pots. A few small Mame trees in tiny pots and one big Maple in a Bonsai pot. I did have one Spruce I left on the bench outside in a brand new pot in very free draining soil, the pot cracked and a big chunk fell off, one that was in the greenhouse in an old pot had no issue. I also have a 2 foot deep cold frame where my cuttings stay all winter, Azaleas mostly but many others.
Usually there is enough snow on it to keep it warm but not the last few winters, just rain which what I think damaged the pot the Spruce was in. Cheap low fired pots won't survive and just crumble after a few winters even in the Greenhouse. Hard to find really good pots the last few years. A couple years ago i had some 20 + yr old Kingsville Boxwoods that I grew from cuttings, been in the ground a few years, in various bonsai pots as a group with no issue then a few years ago it was so cold for 2 days after some very warm days it killed them, I was so bummed, so I keep the those I have left, small cuttings, in the attic now.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I think maybe something like this may be the ideal course.

Pour a concrete slab with a couple of drains in it. Stub off electrical and water. Suddenly you have a work space that you can use year-round, with lighting, a shop sink, hose bibs on the exterior, etc. If you ever decide to sell your house, it will be viewed as an asset - a potential kid's playhouse, man-cave, UTV storage, whatever. Versus I think a lot of people (unless they are gardeners) view plastic greenhouse set-ups as temporary, or a potential eye-sore to be removed. I know you are a craftsman, so you would be able to handle the work, versus I wouldn't recommend the same thing to my dad

This is the way I would have gone... but instead we worked with our walk-out foundation and built a workshop in one side - with double doors with windows, a dog-washing station (aka stainless steel bonsai watering station) and lots of shelving for gardening stuff. My bonsai shelves are just outside - and the prime advantage is that I can work in A/C or heat, depending on the season. I have minimized trees that need overwintering protection, plus we have mild winters. And my son doesn't visit often enough to be bothered by all the tropical bonsai in his bedroom when he is here for the holidays