New dwarf Japanese maple direction

[RaginCajun]

Hey yall! Hope you’re having a great day of rest. I picked up a few trees yesterday from underhill bonsai in Folsom, Louisiana.. this little dwarf Japanese maple is gonna be a tiny shohin tree. I’m looking for advice, guidance or whatever help/information yall are willing to share. I want to avoid large scars. This tree should be around 6-8” total height when it’s finished, that’s what I want.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Scars heal... but you will have them. To think otherwise...I can't fantom with the goal size you want.

Did you by chance discuss your desired with one at the nursery? To get their first hand opinion of it and your goals. Evan could have offered sound advice looking at it first hand.

I prefer dormant trees when it comes to deciduous to make huge plans for direction. But same sense...a photo doesn't offer up an understanding of size to my own way of thinking. With your having a size goal in mind.

 

[RaginCajun]

Scars heal... but you will have them. To think otherwise...I can't fantom with the goal size you want.

Did you by chance discuss your desired with one at the nursery? To get their first hand opinion of it and your goals. Evan could have offered sound advice looking at it first hand.

I prefer dormant trees when it comes to deciduous to make huge plans for direction. But same sense...a photo doesn't offer up an understanding of size to my own way of thinking. With your having a size goal in mind.

Evan was taking a little shade break and changing a diaper when my buddy and I were there . They have a little bitty baby boy now.
The trunk is as big as I want it to be, it’s going to be a very tiny tree. Not quite mame but as short as possible, I think it has the trunk size just for what I want so I’m looking at branch selection and development now, in late December or early January down here.. our trees start popping buds in February . Thanks for your help!

 

[RaginCajun]

The leaves are very tiny too on this particular cultivar.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Evan was taking a little shade break and changing a diaper when my buddy and I were there . They have a little bitty baby boy now.
The trunk is as big as I want it to be, it’s going to be a very tiny tree. Not quite mame but as short as possible, I think it has the trunk size just for what I want so I’m looking at branch selection and development now, in late December or early January down here.. our trees start popping buds in February . Thanks for your help!

Yeah...what a good daddy he is! Yes...I was aware they had a little one. Very cool he's hands on.

Okay assuming the structure that is there. Will work into the stature tree you want. Yes? Choose your front first... base /nebari ... that said. I am neagari Gal. If I see a tree inside there that the nebari isn't as strong on. Then I decide which I prefer. Looks to be a good project for ya.

 

[Cadillactaste]

The leaves are very tiny too on this particular cultivar.

Nice ... once you build ramification and a good root system. They will reduce even more. I've a novelty that has miscule foliage too. I won't hijack your thread. It's under wee Japanese maple in the title I believe.

Good luck with ya. Once it's dormant. I'll take a look more on what I might remove. I don't even guess at a deciduous in leaf... because you sell yourself short in doing so. Just my two cents worth there.

 

[RaginCajun]

It was cool, when we first got there Evan and some of the nursery staff were running around working on the nursery.. man!! That place has grown! Their field grow op is finally putting off, Evans got some nice stuff available.. they have been expanding their social media ops and relentlessly working on their website. 4yrs ago they had the property and some shade structures.. now they have several big greenhouses and several shade houses, and expanding the field grow op.
His wife was picnicking behind one of the shade houses with the baby and Evan was running around working and then would go tend to them, he’s got his hands full so I didn’t disturb him .
I can see it has one big root that’s gonna have to be cut off most likely, it is rock solid with roots so definitely going to check the roots out in the spring. If the roots are good my plan was to then work the top, if the roots need some further development I planned to leave the top alone for the most part and work on the roots for a few years. Evan is usually pretty good about developing the roots of all of their stock. They dig their tridents up every yr and work the roots then replant them back on boards or tiles in the field.. they have some MONSTER tridents in the field and probably 100 of them with Goliath trunks and set structure in grow pots.

 

[RaginCajun]

Nice ... once you build ramification and a good root system. They will reduce even more. I've a novelty that has miscule foliage too. I won't hijack your thread. It's under wee Japanese maple in the title I believe.

Good luck with ya. Once it's dormant. I'll take a look more on what I might remove. I don't even guess at a deciduous in leaf... because you sell yourself short in doing so. Just my two cents worth there.

I really appreciate your help. I agree with you.. honestly down here the trees are usually so stressed out from the heat I don’t do anything to them. Everytime I prune a deciduous tree in the warm months things go south thereafter it seems. I just don’t think they can handle the pruning and heat stress. Especially maples. Maybe I’m just not doing it right.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I really appreciate your help. I agree with you.. honestly down here the trees are usually so stressed out from the heat I don’t do anything to them. Everytime I prune a deciduous tree in the warm months things go south thereafter it seems. I just don’t think they can handle the pruning and heat stress. Especially maples. Maybe I’m just not doing it right.

Again. I'm a northerner... that's a climate/location thing. I would find time to pick Evan's brain. If he's selling them. He's got some pointers.

 

[Shibui]

I want to avoid large scars. This tree should be around 6-8” total height when it’s finished, that’s what I want.

To get down to that height you are going to have some scars. To achieve 6" total height you really need to chop larger trunks/branches at around 4" to allow space to regrow the thinner twigs of the canopy. Most of those branches are more than finger thick at that height. Finger thick might not be physically big compared to some of the chops we see here but it is significant in relation to this trunk diameter at around 1". There's the added problem of most dwarf cultivars growing quite slowly so they also heal quite slowly and you won't be able to let it grow wild to help heal any cuts or you may lose the good structure you already have.
That lowest branch is pretty thick, maybe too thick for such a small bonsai? If that has to be removed it's going to leave a relatively big scar on the trunk.

Given the trunk is vertical and has well established nebari I guess you're looking for broom style?
Informal upright might just be possible but most of the existing branches are relatively thick so you may need to remove most of the current branches and regrow to get branching that suits the smaller trunk.

Definitely find the best view of the nebari first but that's not the final decision. Nebari is important for maple bonsai but trunk bends, trunk taper and branch placement also need consideration. We rarely get everything we desire so it is usual to have to make a compromise. maybe the second best nebari if that gives us the best looking trunk and branches. maybe the second best trunk line if that view gives great nebari and best branch placement.
I usually try to look at each aspect alone to find each 'best'. Then see if any of those bests line up with each other. Also note any 'second best' or 'acceptable' views in case the best don't all line up.
Check your tree for: nebari, trunk shape, trunk taper, branching, apex (thsi tree probably won't have an apex yet but need to take into account whether the trunk leans back or forward), any faults (including possible scars from removing branches, etc), any features you think look good. You can mark all those on the pot so you can keep track.

See if you can pick a few 'best' views for us to work with.

 

[RaginCajun]

To get down to that height you are going to have some scars. To achieve 6" total height you really need to chop larger trunks/branches at around 4" to allow space to regrow the thinner twigs of the canopy. Most of those branches are more than finger thick at that height. Finger thick might not be physically big compared to some of the chops we see here but it is significant in relation to this trunk diameter at around 1". There's the added problem of most dwarf cultivars growing quite slowly so they also heal quite slowly and you won't be able to let it grow wild to help heal any cuts or you may lose the good structure you already have.
That lowest branch is pretty thick, maybe too thick for such a small bonsai? If that has to be removed it's going to leave a relatively big scar on the trunk.

Given the trunk is vertical and has well established nebari I guess you're looking for broom style?
Informal upright might just be possible but most of the existing branches are relatively thick so you may need to remove most of the current branches and regrow to get branching that suits the smaller trunk.

Definitely find the best view of the nebari first but that's not the final decision. Nebari is important for maple bonsai but trunk bends, trunk taper and branch placement also need consideration. We rarely get everything we desire so it is usual to have to make a compromise. maybe the second best nebari if that gives us the best looking trunk and branches. maybe the second best trunk line if that view gives great nebari and best branch placement.
I usually try to look at each aspect alone to find each 'best'. Then see if any of those bests line up with each other. Also note any 'second best' or 'acceptable' views in case the best don't all line up.
Check your tree for: nebari, trunk shape, trunk taper, branching, apex (thsi tree probably won't have an apex yet but need to take into account whether the trunk leans back or forward), any faults (including possible scars from removing branches, etc), any features you think look good. You can mark all those on the pot so you can keep track.

See if you can pick a few 'best' views for us to work with.

The tree is just now beginning to change into its fall color, in a few weeks when all the leaves are gone and we can see the structure clearly I will take some photos. Those big branches down low are definitely going to have to go, I may keep one of the smaller of the 3 as a first branch but I’ll definitely lop a couple of them off because 2 of them project straight out of 2 potential fronts.
Thank you for your help.
Trent

 

[pmalelis]

This is a trunkline I saw.. IDK about no scars though. Cool tree

 

[RaginCajun]

That’s exactly what I was thinking, there is another great front as well, I attached a photo. I think this actually has the best view of all the movement in the tree and the top leans toward the viewer, I marked a front branch that needs to go, those other 2 big branches also need to go that you marked.. just above and behind the marked branch in the attached photo is a small branch that would make for a perfect new leader. These are definitely the best 2 options.