Need help with choosing front for Shimpaku

[phongtien1996]

What do you think is a better front for this itoigawa?
1/


2/


Other angle to show the branches

 

[Shibui]

Just given those 2 to choose from I'd probably go for 1 but only because that has a trunk coming forward to build an apex from. Trouble is that's a very strong, straight trunk so it's going to take quite a few years to develop branching for the new apex.
Photo 3 but tipped backward a bit could be ok too.
Front 2 has a nice curve but I can't see where the apex would come from with that as front unless one of the smaller branches could be grown and thickened. Or maybe one of the longer, horizontal branches to make a possible semi-cascade style?

 

[WIlliam_Butler_Yeets]

I prefer #1

 

[bwaynef]

I'd go with 2, but you'd have to bring the apex back toward the front. I think the initial movement away followed by strong movement forward would add interesting depth to the tree.

 

[ForrestW]

I would go with # 2 but put a lot of movement into those first 2-3 small branches then let it grow to thicken up for a few more years. The base seems the strongest but you want the same movement the base offerers throughout and it seems like if you do your best to twist and turn those thinner branches and then let them thicken you will have good stock to work with in 3-4 more years.

 

[Gabler]

No. 2.

 

[phongtien1996]

I can see many votes for option 2, that was also my initial though but the problem this tree has all straight, big branches which are boring and impossible to bend.
Should I turn them into jin or air layer then build new apex from thin braches near the base?

 

[bwaynef]

I can see many votes for option 2, that was also my initial though but the problem this tree has all straight, big branches which are boring and impossible to bend.
Should I turn them into jin or air layer then build new apex from thin braches near the base?

Raffia, thick wire, guy wires, rebar, leverage, time. All of that might not be necessary.

Ultimately you're going to build the tree from thin branches, but I think you need to keep some of the established size, ...but it will need to be bent.

 

[phongtien1996]

Just given those 2 to choose from I'd probably go for 1 but only because that has a trunk coming forward to build an apex from. Trouble is that's a very strong, straight trunk so it's going to take quite a few years to develop branching for the new apex.
Photo 3 but tipped backward a bit could be ok too.
Front 2 has a nice curve but I can't see where the apex would come from with that as front unless one of the smaller branches could be grown and thickened. Or maybe one of the longer, horizontal branches to make a possible semi-cascade style?

I'm also thinking to go with option 2 to make a semi-cascade.
Should I turn all biggest branches to Jin then build thin branch marked in red as new Apex?
Another option I'm considering is using the blue one as apex then try to bend yellow near the trunk to show it more but I'm worried about the straight branches...

 

[Shibui]

Those straight, thick branches are definitely going to be a problem for any design.
One of the options I looked at was make jin with all the thicker branches and build new trunk and branching with some of the thinner ones. You do need to realize that will take another 10 -15 years to the project.

I can't see that yellow branch doing much for any design but I can only see in 2D so maybe there's something that we can't see. Always, always consider any online advice carefully and check on the plant before making any adjustments. Any design needs to work with what's there and you need to be comfortable with the design.
Having said that, if you think it's worth trying to bend I'd say go for it. The worst that can happen is if won't move or breaks - no big deal because there's plenty of backups. Trying will give some practical experience that will be valuable for the next time.

Another option I'm considering is using the blue one as apex then try to bend yellow near the trunk to show it more but I'm worried about the straight branches...

Any design for this tree is going to look much better with plenty of bends right out to the tips. Radical bends at the base then straight or smooth curves out further always seems to look wrong to me. Cut back and regrow from side branches may work but still a very long term plan.

Should I turn them into jin or air layer

Why would you want more straight, thick trunk junipers? You already have enough trouble with this one. The only thing worse than a thick, straight trunk pre bonsai is 2 straight, thick trunk pre bonsai. Cut it off and throw away. If you want some more junipers take thinner cuttings and bend the heck out of them then grow them on. In the same time it will take to convert this into good bonsai you can grow better trunks with more bends and better taper.

 

[phongtien1996]

Those straight, thick branches are definitely going to be a problem for any design.
One of the options I looked at was make jin with all the thicker branches and build new trunk and branching with some of the thinner ones. You do need to realize that will take another 10 -15 years to the project.

I can't see that yellow branch doing much for any design but I can only see in 2D so maybe there's something that we can't see. Always, always consider any online advice carefully and check on the plant before making any adjustments. Any design needs to work with what's there and you need to be comfortable with the design.
Having said that, if you think it's worth trying to bend I'd say go for it. The worst that can happen is if won't move or breaks - no big deal because there's plenty of backups. Trying will give some practical experience that will be valuable for the next time.


Any design for this tree is going to look much better with plenty of bends right out to the tips. Radical bends at the base then straight or smooth curves out further always seems to look wrong to me. Cut back and regrow from side branches may work but still a very long term plan.


Why would you want more straight, thick trunk junipers? You already have enough trouble with this one. The only thing worse than a thick, straight trunk pre bonsai is 2 straight, thick trunk pre bonsai. Cut it off and throw away. If you want some more junipers take thinner cuttings and bend the heck out of them then grow them on. In the same time it will take to convert this into good bonsai you can grow better trunks with more bends and better taper.

I thought it was a waste throwing those big, straight branches LOL so I was trying to make use of them.
I will take some small cuttings then build this tree from the beginning I guess.
Thanks so much.