Need help on my European olive styling/carving

[Polareagle85]

Hey guys I'm new here, my name is Jimmy in 37yo and I live in downriver Michigan. I'm just in my 4th year practicing bonsai and my first ever tree which is a very odd/weird tree as a new bonsai enthusiasts lol. What I need is help with style and or carving ideas. I won this tree on Eb@y 3.5years ago. It is also due for a repot this spring. The tree is very healthy and has put on tons of growth. (Which I usually cut it all back) due to not having any ideas to best style this. Currently I left an Apex and the start of 2 pad areas which you"ll see in the photos. Also after some cleaning on the base I realized the tree is hollowing down the center like an arch I'd say. I didn't know that until this winter. Also found some original soil from when tree was collected I guess. Ps when I bought this tree it was a survivor and after 2 years it finally sprouted out a couple shoots. That's what I originally drew me too it cuz im a survivor of cancer and idk it just hooked me.

What do u guys think I can do with this tree? I really love it but everytime I think of a style i can't picture it (like my grandfather would say can't put the pen to the paper) or it's not looking right idk I really just need some advice and some knowledge. This definitely isn't a beginner tree but I can't give it up. It so ugly it's beautiful to me. Any help will be much appreciated. I'll upload some current photos as well. the last photo is from last spring and the rest are from last summer. It's currently defoliated and I added some wire to attempt a style but I'm still not feeling it maybe is the pot or having no carving idk the deadwood has been treated once with lime sulfur. As you can read I'm very confused with this tree but I can't help it I love it and I call it My dinosaur foot.

 

[Polareagle85]

Here are a few photos for right now

 

[PonderingSage:]

I wouldn’t do anything more than wire branches into space. I’m a fan of the “oak” style with olives. I would just grow it out and cut in back in a few years to start building branches. I did that with my olive that was stump cut in 2015. Here is it now.
It’s always been in a smaller pot…if you up pot yours a bit that shrink the timeline
Good luck , it looks like cool material!

 

[Dabbler]

make sure you wear a respirator if you carve and it's already been lime sulphur'ed, the just a dust mask if not. Honestly I'd work the branch and fill it in, create a denser canopy first - as the apex and branches need a ton of work still

 

[Michael P]

This is beautiful material! As PonderingSage says, I would just develop the foliage pads that are already started. The transition to the apex is rather abrupt. You could choose to let the apex grow wild for a few years to thicken it, or keep as a short pad of foliage at the top with leaves concealing the transition.

With a wonderfully unique tree like this you won't find a model in the classical bonsai styles. Try looking at as many photos of other olive bonsai as you can find.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Welcome Aboard BonsaiNut. That’s really an awesome tree! Just a couple thoughts.

Definitely would wire out and let it run for awhile to strengthen and grow out the roots more. This will also give time to study other olives that are refined. I like the pattern the living and dead parts of the trees make.

As far as carving goes, one can always get in there and carve anytime, so no hurry there. Wait until the roots are really strong. Then one might use a die grinder to accentuate the arch and a bit move sinuously up through the deadwood immediately above. Avoid a simple arch shape if possible.

Please use proper PPE, including mask and safety glasses.

Down the line a bit, at next repot try to focus on clearing out the field soil and any dead or decaying wood/roots.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Cadillactaste]

If you don't know how to truly carve. Respect the tree its beautiful as it is. That's my two cents. I love the texture found on my own...as it is. I imagine the same seller as mine also came from ebay.

I can promise you one thing. I won't carve my own deadwood. It's absolutely delicious the depth I see there. I won't screw it up for no amount of money. Done wrong...you can cause it to rot and break off. I say this...as Boon had shared an Olive on his group. And...I thought it was decently carved. Boon tore the carving job apart. As to it was done poorly and won't last.

My own olive...

Cadillactaste on Instagram: "The Olive...well,now. I've learned there is more to this than meets the eye. That said...I've permitted the foliage I removed to grow back on the front that I've tucked down for this footage. As I was advised...you need

23 likes, 3 comments - cadillactaste on November 14, 2023: "The Olive...well,now. I've learned there is more to this than meets the eye. That said...I've permitted the foliage I removed to grow back on the front that I've tucked down for this footage. As I was advised...you need a live feed to...

www.instagram.com

 

[PonderingSage:]

Yeah, tool marks on olive will always be there…the wood is really hard.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I decided to pull Boon's words on the carving. If done wrong...you can set it up to decay and rot. Species was an Olive for topic.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Some good thoughts. But it’s been my personal experience getting an opinion on naturalistic styling on this forum is like herding cats in a room full of Tennessee rocking chairs during a knitting convention.

Everyone has an opinion and rarely will two meet. It’s no one’s fault, it has more to do with how far we have come from the natural world… and how close we have come to the artificial constructed world. A world where folks get together and say, “This is what this particular artform must look like .”

imho this is partially because of one’s personal experience with the natural world. In other words if one has been intimately exposed to trees in many natural settings, being with the gnarly denizens of an old growth forest, the windswept coasts, or many other arduous natural ecosystems, a whole different perspective emerges. Regretfully this experience is somewhat rare imho.

Secondly because a naturalistic design frequently clashes with the aesthetic drummed in us by most professional practitioners.

Finally styling can be personal. What one person likes, another may distain…. One can see this phenomenon in many threads discussing styling.

Boon is an awesome Japanese trained bonsai professional. He makes some good points in @Cadillactaste ’s post above.…Small pieces can rot off soon. Rot often expands with the grain… (until a woodpecker, or back beetle happens by). Crevices attract water hastening rot.

….But that’s exactly what one happens in nature. This stuff will happen. Lightening hits, rockfalls or tornados knock over and twists trees into gnarly beast, bugs attack, birds peck, water splits ….and that’s nature at its finest!

This Rocky Mountain Juniper is an example of a tree from nature… eerily similar to what Boon is saying shouldn’t be done…. yet nature said otherwise.



The olive OP is proposing to carve is rotting out for a reason. Artistically expanding upon this situation to make this area a focal point would only add to a naturalistic style.

If one wants to enlarge upon a master of naturalistic bonsai, here’s a link to Dan Robinson’s focal point philosophy.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Cadillactaste]

Some good thoughts. But it’s been my personal experience getting an opinion on naturalistic styling on this forum is like herding cats in a room full of Tennessee rocking chairs during a knitting convention.

Everyone has an opinion and rarely will two meet. It’s no one’s fault, it has more to do with how far we have come from the natural world… and how close we have come to the artificial constructed world. A world where folks get together and say, “This is what this particular artform must look like .”

imho this is partially because of one’s personal experience with the natural world. In other words if one has been intimately exposed to trees in many natural settings, being with the gnarly denizens of an old growth forest, the windswept coasts, or many other arduous natural ecosystems, a whole different perspective emerges. Regretfully this experience is somewhat rare imho.

Secondly because a naturalistic design frequently clashes with the aesthetic drummed in us by most professional practitioners.

Finally styling can be personal. What one person likes, another may distain…. One can see this phenomenon in many threads discussing styling.

Boon is an awesome Japanese trained bonsai professional. He makes some good points in @Cadillactaste ’s post above.…Small pieces can rot off soon. Rot often expands with the grain… (until a woodpecker, or back beetle happens by). Crevices attract water hastening rot.

….But that’s exactly what one happens in nature. This stuff will happen. Lightening hits, rockfalls or tornados knock over and twists trees into gnarly beast, bugs attack, birds peck, water splits ….and that’s nature at its finest!

This Rocky Mountain Juniper is an example of a tree from nature… eerily similar to what Boon is saying shouldn’t be done…. yet nature said otherwise.

View attachment 520984

The olive OP is proposing to carve is rotting out for a reason. Artistically expanding upon this situation to make this area a focal point would only add to a naturalistic style.

If one wants to enlarge upon a master of naturalistic bonsai, here’s a link to Dan Robinson’s focal point philosophy.

Cheers
DSD sends

I disagree... as I didn't share the material that was discussed. It isn't my tree and I won't share it.


Another thing...
I'm all about scars and rotted out trunks. That's my bandwagon I've been riding for a bit. Soooo let's pause there a minute. Why would one who is being called an ambassador for scars on deciduous trunks...say...not to carve?

Because... you carve poorly. It will not look natural at all. It will be a man-made disaster. Respecting material...is my stance at the end of the day...always has been. Want it carved...seek one out to do it for you whose work you may admire. respect the material. It's a nice olive. To butcher it...if you can't enhance it. Is disrespecting material.

So we have come to a crossroads. I choose to disagree with your stance. I said if you can't carve...don't do it... not that it shouldn't be done. If it's done...do it right. That is my stance.


A couple images of my own material of scars. I'm not a purist... I love scars. What I detest...is crap carving on something that looked good at one point.

Japanese maple



Yamadori Hawthorn

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Totally! We will agree to disagree. Our experiences are vastly different. OP has already stated not to do this att.

imho this is a beginner carving job begging to be done with little hazard to either the tree or the design. Help would be easy to come by if OP desires to move forward in the future.

Best
DSD sends

 

[Polareagle85]

I wouldn’t do anything more than wire branches into space. I’m a fan of the “oak” style with olives. I would just grow it out and cut in back in a few years to start building branches. I did that with my olive that was stump cut in 2015. Here is it now.
It’s always been in a smaller pot…if you up pot yours a bit that shrink the timeline
Good luck , it looks like cool material!

Great advice thank you I'll load some photos of the wiring soon.

 

[Polareagle85]

make sure you wear a respirator if you carve and it's already been lime sulphur'ed, the just a dust mask if not. Honestly I'd work the branch and fill it in, create a denser canopy first - as the apex and branches need a ton of work still

Yes I agree thank you I'll keep letting g her grow and fill out and get started with some initial ramifications.

 

[Polareagle85]

This is beautiful material! As PonderingSage says, I would just develop the foliage pads that are already started. The transition to the apex is rather abrupt. You could choose to let the apex grow wild for a few years to thicken it, or keep as a short pad of foliage at the top with leaves concealing the transition.

With a wonderfully unique tree like this you won't find a model in the classical bonsai styles. Try looking at as many photos of other olive bonsai as you can find.

Awesome thank you. Great advice.. I know I got a challenging piece, but I love it, and all I have is time with this tree, so I have no problems waiting and learning.

 

[Polareagle85]

This is beautiful material! As PonderingSage says, I would just develop the foliage pads that are already started. The transition to the apex is rather abrupt. You could choose to let the apex grow wild for a few years to thicken it, or keep as a short pad of foliage at the top with leaves concealing the transition.

With a wonderfully unique tree like this you won't find a model in the classical bonsai styles. Try looking at as many photos of other olive bonsai as you can find.

I really think I wanna let it grow wild and thicken that sounds like the idea I had b4. Thank you

 

[Polareagle85]

Welcome Aboard BonsaiNut. That’s really an awesome tree! Just a couple thoughts.

Definitely would wire out and let it run for awhile to strengthen and grow out the roots more. This will also give time to study other olives that are refined. I like the pattern the living and dead parts of the trees make.

As far as carving goes, one can always get in there and carve anytime, so no hurry there. Wait until the roots are really strong. Then one might use a die grinder to accentuate the arch and a bit move sinuously up through the deadwood immediately above. Avoid a simple arch shape if possible.

Please use proper PPE, including mask and safety glasses.

Down the line a bit, at next repot try to focus on clearing out the field soil and any dead or decaying wood/roots.

cheers
DSD sends

Perfect thanks so much, ya I'm in no rush, so yes I'll wait and learn more and practice on free deadwood to lean how to do it correctly. Man I love this site so many nice people willing to help and be positive..like I said I'm fairly new to bonsai and I got a challenging tree and I'm in no rush I just needed so guidance and advice. Again thank you.

 

[Polareagle85]

If you don't know how to truly carve. Respect the tree its beautiful as it is. That's my two cents. I love the texture found on my own...as it is. I imagine the same seller as mine also came from ebay.

I can promise you one thing. I won't carve my own deadwood. It's absolutely delicious the depth I see there. I won't screw it up for no amount of money. Done wrong...you can cause it to rot and break off. I say this...as Boon had shared an Olive on his group. And...I thought it was decently carved. Boon tore the carving job apart. As to it was done poorly and won't last.

My own olive...

Cadillactaste on Instagram: "The Olive...well,now. I've learned there is more to this than meets the eye. That said...I've permitted the foliage I removed to grow back on the front that I've tucked down for this footage. As I was advised...you need

23 likes, 3 comments - cadillactaste on November 14, 2023: "The Olive...well,now. I've learned there is more to this than meets the eye. That said...I've permitted the foliage I removed to grow back on the front that I've tucked down for this footage. As I was advised...you need a live feed to...

www.instagram.com

Great advice. Hey at first when I got the tree that's what drew me in what the deadwood so ya u can't put it back on once it's off. Definitely going to be a thought and the tree will progress with my skills..I am not to big to ask for help but I'm a DIY kinda guy so the more I can do myself and learn the better..

 

[Polareagle85]

Some good thoughts. But it’s been my personal experience getting an opinion on naturalistic styling on this forum is like herding cats in a room full of Tennessee rocking chairs during a knitting convention.

Everyone has an opinion and rarely will two meet. It’s no one’s fault, it has more to do with how far we have come from the natural world… and how close we have come to the artificial constructed world. A world where folks get together and say, “This is what this particular artform must look like .”

imho this is partially because of one’s personal experience with the natural world. In other words if one has been intimately exposed to trees in many natural settings, being with the gnarly denizens of an old growth forest, the windswept coasts, or many other arduous natural ecosystems, a whole different perspective emerges. Regretfully this experience is somewhat rare imho.

Secondly because a naturalistic design frequently clashes with the aesthetic drummed in us by most professional practitioners.

Finally styling can be personal. What one person likes, another may distain…. One can see this phenomenon in many threads discussing styling.

Boon is an awesome Japanese trained bonsai professional. He makes some good points in @Cadillactaste ’s post above.…Small pieces can rot off soon. Rot often expands with the grain… (until a woodpecker, or back beetle happens by). Crevices attract water hastening rot.

….But that’s exactly what one happens in nature. This stuff will happen. Lightening hits, rockfalls or tornados knock over and twists trees into gnarly beast, bugs attack, birds peck, water splits ….and that’s nature at its finest!

This Rocky Mountain Juniper is an example of a tree from nature… eerily similar to what Boon is saying shouldn’t be done…. yet nature said otherwise.

View attachment 520984

The olive OP is proposing to carve is rotting out for a reason. Artistically expanding upon this situation to make this area a focal point would only add to a naturalistic style.

If one wants to enlarge upon a master of naturalistic bonsai, here’s a link to Dan Robinson’s focal point philosophy.

Cheers
DSD sends

Tysm

 

[Polareagle85]

Thanks guys I appreciate it and will update this post ad I update my tree..tysm seriously